Game 5: Maryland (Wed 8:30p CBS Sports Network)

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 8 years ago

Dan, according to Gottlieb (not sure if he's a reliable source), still hasn't emotionally got over losing EC. I'm sure the team sees that, and that could be the reason they played as if they had no chance once they got behind early. I know it's not easy, but both the staff and players have to move on and make a season out of this.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 8 years ago

Billyboy78 wrote:Dan, according to Gottlieb (not sure if he's a reliable source).

Let me stop you right there. No.

sf2010 · Unread post by **sf2010** » 8 years ago

Billyboy78 wrote:Dan, according to Gottlieb (not sure if he's a reliable source), still hasn't emotionally got over losing EC. I'm sure the team sees that, and that could be the reason they played as if they had no chance once they got behind early. I know it's not easy, but both the staff and players have to move on and make a season out of this.

Besides Gottlieb not providing the best insight to Rhody basketball, a couple points. Of course he hasn't emotionally gotten over it. I don't blame him. Can't even compare our own feelings as fans of the program to what Hurley and the team felt/are feeling about the devastating injury. Yes they have to move on, they are. They sure as shit didn't quit against Valpo and TCU, and while the RESULTS weren't there against MD, I have no doubt that the EFFORT was there, though it may have been misdirected.

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 8 years ago

I am just so down. I keep seeing EC going down and it's just depressing. I hope this team can overcome this.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 8 years ago

Its less EC's points that need to be replaced its the invaluable effect he would have had on the offensive end by having 1-2 guys glued to him every night. It opens up the entire offense and allows Jared, Jarvis and Hassan to be complimentary scorers, instead of the go-to-guys. That all would have worked to create a much more fluid looking offense with guys playing their roles...anything from Iverson and/or Earl offensively would have been gravy. Take him away and now guys are being asked to be the go-to option that aren't either ready for that or skilled enough scorers to fill that role. Iverson and Earl move from added value to critical pieces. Of course we have to get over and move past the EC loss, but its effect is a reality that altered the entire season.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 8 years ago

Exactly. It's not exactly shocking that an offense looks bad once you've removed what would be the defense's major target from the court.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 8 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:I've heard all this too often.
"Purity" in fans, means what? Koolaide drinkers
who are blindly cheering, and never quibble about anything?
I've heard "Oh, lots of people read the board. Recruits, players, parents and
friends. Some of your positing isn't good for the program. It's
too negative."
What's the message there? Shut up and only post positive things?
That crap was told to me during the summer, and it's one of the main reason
I don't bother posting here very much.
I find it way over the top.

Nobody should be happy after a loss, I believe I've made that feeling well known on the football side of things here. That said, when overall things are trending in a positive direction, which I still believe is the case with our basketball program, a little perspective is very valuable along with the poor feelings from one game. And yet on this board, every time we lose people start pissing and moaning about their biological clocks. "oh poor me, I'm going to die sad and alone, and never see another URI tournament team, let alone a run!"

Did anyone think this team, even before EC's injury, was as good as our 1997-98 team? I don't think there's anyone here who did, and if they did they shouldn't have. That team got blown out at home by 17 to UMass. In this culture of every game is do or die people fly off the handle after losses. Losses always suck, but they're almost never referendums on where teams are, they're just a bad day.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 8 years ago

Shinze88 wrote:I dont think the surrounding talent on Dayton and VCU is much different than us, but yet these teams still battled through adversity and held things together, how our season unfolds will tell me alot about Hurley and his ability to get run an offense that maximizes our current talent and what defense we use going forward to keep our bigs on the court (cough, cough.. zone).

I'm not normally a fan of people saying don't question coaches on a message board, that's why these things exist. That said a little intelligence is still necessary. Everyone talking about how Hurley needs to play zone needs to stop. Congratulations that your coach was able to lead your team to a third place finish in the 1984 East Bumfuck CYO Invitational by playing zone, but it's irrelevant here. Dan Hurley has built a nationally elite defensive team here, changing that isn't how we get better.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 8 years ago

BPR2010 wrote:I cringe at the thought of what this board will be like if we lose to PC...

We can only hope for this site to go down for a week. At least.

steviep123 · Unread post by **steviep123** » 8 years ago

ATPTourFan wrote:Unbelievable what I'm reading here.

Talks of comparing the Duke game in which our previous coach had the benefit of his entire team available in YEAR 8 of HIS rebuild.

Talking of this as year 4 of Dan's rebuild and leaving out the massive loss of our primary offensive weapon and the well above average performance of the #2 team in the country when I don't think anyone had URI winning that game WITH or WITHOUT EC's services is another maddening perspective.

Discussing the team's TALENT level when the primary talent was lost 10 mins into the season is disingenuous.

Iverson had a breakout pair of games which will pay massive dividends going forward against our normal level of competition. Earl looks able to play and score against top level teams. Jarvis and Terrell will settle down knowing that Kuran, Hass and Earl can help carry the offensive load.

I'm not going to be complaining about a loss to a legit national title contender when we didn't have our best player and Maryland had an offensive performance far and away better than any other they've had this season.

The numbers show that the Terps had been operating in the 50% range for effective FG rate and vs URI they were hitting all sorts of contested shots resulting in an off the charts eFG% of 70.0. Even against Mt St Mary's they only hit 65 in eFG.

Our relative confidence was based off the offensive 'Struggles' they had been demonstrating in the games leading up to ours. Against Rider and Illinois State, the Terps shot 51 and 54 eFG% respectively and they looked vulnerable.

Rhode Island did not face that team. We faced a team that finally played a game worthy of the #2 national ranking. Maryland fulfilled their potential and then some offensively which earned them such a high early season ranking.

URI fulfilled its mission in this tournament. They will win every game in this tournament except vs #2 Maryland. Had we lost to TCU, my tone would be dramatically different as that would have been truly below expectations even without EC -- resulting in a missed opportunity to get Maryland's W-L and their opponents' W-L records in our RPI calculation.

Providence got embarrassed by Kentucky but they benefitted from that drubbing in many ways. The game still counts as just a loss, and Hurley now has teaching points and more data on his team to show him what he has at his disposal this season.

Sorry we didn't lose as pretty as some would like. We weren't winning this game against the Maryland team that showed up on Wednesday night.

For the season, the only true disappointment was missing the chance to beat Valpo at home, even with the shock of losing EC fresh in everyone's minds. Even with that missed opportunity, we are still tracking to a top 40 RPI and a top 3 finish in our league which would mean NCAA Tournament.

Gotta agree with ATP here. Take Jimmy Baron away from that Duke game and we get buried too. That's not to say we don't get buried with EC (though a few MD fans have said it would have been much closer. Maybe, maybe not). We were not as awful as we looked and Maryland played by far their best game. The early 90s UNLV or Duke probably wasn't winning that game!

Let's all settle down and move on. Or look at it is this way. The way we played on Wednesday, we would have lost to Illinois State. Would you rather have a loss to them or a loss to MD on their schedule. On selection Sunday, the committee is going to see a loss to #2 Maryland, and that's all. The score probably won't matter too much to them.

I'm on to Rider.

I'll be in 207, row B if anyone is around.

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 8 years ago

Ace's avatar is a jinx. Gil played last year hurt. Ec goes down off the bat.

Madden cover jinx=Ace avatar jinx

steviep123 · Unread post by **steviep123** » 8 years ago

ace wrote:
Billyboy78 wrote:Dan, according to Gottlieb (not sure if he's a reliable source).
Let me stop you right there. No.

+100!

Shinze88 · Unread post by **Shinze88** » 8 years ago

RhowdyRam02 wrote:
Shinze88 wrote:I dont think the surrounding talent on Dayton and VCU is much different than us, but yet these teams still battled through adversity and held things together, how our season unfolds will tell me alot about Hurley and his ability to get run an offense that maximizes our current talent and what defense we use going forward to keep our bigs on the court (cough, cough.. zone).
I'm not normally a fan of people saying don't question coaches on a message board, that's why these things exist. That said a little intelligence is still necessary. Everyone talking about how Hurley needs to play zone needs to stop. Congratulations that your coach was able to lead your team to a third place finish in the 1984 East Bumfuck CYO Invitational by playing zone, but it's irrelevant here. Dan Hurley has built a nationally elite defensive team here, changing that isn't how we get better.

Hold on, first off, my team didn't finish 3rd, we won the '85 East Bumfuck CYO Invitational ,thank you very much. Second, I'm just saying it wouldn't hurt to mix in a change in defense at points in the game where we need to keep key players on the floor. If Hassan has to go to the bench because he picks up foul #2 before the 10 minute mark of the first half, its not sacrilege to play some zone for a few possessions. Yes, I know we are a nationally elite defense, but not so much when we play teams who are elite on offense (Maryland, Kansas, SMU.. etc). I've watched a ton of college hoops so far this season and I've yet to see a team play exclusively man defense all game, especially with the way officials are calling games. Again, defense is not going to be the reason we lose this year.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 8 years ago

This all just highlights one tiny issue...why has Dan only been able to recruit two dynamic offensive players in 4 years? Only X and EC...Maybe KI will turn into his third.

DeanDome88 · Unread post by **DeanDome88** » 8 years ago

TruePoint wrote:OK, everyone is entitled to their opinion, except that I am not entitled to my opinion about those opinions. Got it.

About freaking time

DeanDome88 · Unread post by **DeanDome88** » 8 years ago

ATPTourFan wrote:
Shinze88 wrote:Dayton has looked like a legit team after losing their best player in Pierre and have blown out Alabama and beat a very tough Iowa team, VCU lost Briante Weber last year in late January and yet went on to win the A10 tournament and take a higher seeded Ohio State team to OT before losing in the ncaa's.
Dayton is several years ahead of us in terms of program maturity, and VCU is another leap ahead of Dayton. Each of these programs is light years ahead of ours in finances and infrastructure as well. The fact that with less resources in with little time to do it, Dan Hurley's program was poised this year to win the A10 and win games in the Dance says a LOT. Imagine if he had the established foundational support of VCU and Dayton at his disposal??

Does everyone realize that we're just trying to get our asses back in the damn NCAA Tournament and see what happens? Especially following the loss of EC, that would be an absolutely appropriate goal (JUST GET IN!!). If we had EC, as some in the media said, we could have had a team ready to play in the second weekend given the right seeding and match-ups.

In my reality this year was a year to Just Get In!! before the injury to EC, if we get in now it will be by the slightest of margins with some good fortune. The "crisis" of losing EC will definitely create more opportunity for others to grow as players. I am not sure if we have enough to make the dance or not. I am behind our players 100% and will support them. When EC went down with the injury I had three thoughts. 1. This is a tough break for EC personally although injuries to athletes are a fact of life. 2. This creates more chances for others to take a bigger role. 3. I was hoping that this year I had finally heard the last of Hurley making excuses but expect to be in for a long year on that front.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

RiFan, and he's a transfer.....

Same for Four, who's our best shooter......

Maybe the transfer route is the answer to bringing in established scorers here.....

Concerning our NCAA tourney chances:

Before EC went down, I pegged our chances of Dancing at about 75%.

After the fall, our chances are headed south to about 25% land, if that.

It wasn't just the Maryland game that changed my opinion about this team's overall talent.

It was "show me" when it came to integrating our new players, of which there were many, and how much talent is really there, when it comes to the freshmen?

At least Iverson seems to be the real deal, and Earl is vastly improved.

Other than them, where's the beef? Everyone else has backslided. Can't blame it all on EC's loss.

As for Dan, he knows getting to the Dance will be a major uphill battle, whether he says it or not, you can tell, believe me......

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 8 years ago

I agree Shinze88, we should be able to play a reasonable zone, if that is the best defense against a certain opponent. Why limit yourself and only play man? It makes you predictable. This may not be an apples to apples comparison, but isn't that what the Pats do, play the style best suited to win the game against a particular opponent.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 8 years ago

Yes Rambone, he's a transfer with only 2 years of eligibility. See my other concern about our latest crop of Frosh...more defensive specialists who haven't shown even a hint of offense. Oh, I think that is the rep for Stanford too...solid defensive player and limited on offense.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 8 years ago

No one is suggesting playing zone all the time. Since we basically have a 6 man rotation right now, using it can be used to help hide foul troubled players, help save some energy and to just show a different look occasionally. Even if we had good shooters, playing 35+ minutes of intense man to man defense would tire out legs, and we all know that the most important part of the body for an outside shooter is his legs. Plus with a 6 man rotation, at least two or 3 players will have serious foul trouble. I'm pretty sure it's happened in every game so far this season. Obviously our tough man to man is our #1 strength. But, once again, we don't have the depth to use it for 40 minutes.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

Again, it's hard to recruit guys who have the whole package, in other words are good scorers AND defenders....

Them's the 4 and 5 stars, you know the ones who we really don't have much chance of getting.....

Dan is going to have to find more guys via the transfer route like X, Iverson, and Four, who can score and play a little defense too.

They need a balance. This team is too heavily dependent on defense at the expense of offense.....

EC is the perfect blend of both, he can score, and play some D. He's really the only 4 year guard Dan has gotten so far, that can do both.

rhodylaw · Unread post by **rhodylaw** » 8 years ago

This is why I was excited to have Four on this team - a guy who was supposed to come off the bench and knock down threes. Dan needs to find shooters to compliment the athletes and defensive guys on the team. I thought that Thompson was billed as an outside threat, so maybe he just needs to get comfortable with his shot on this level. Nicola may grow into that role as well if/when he adjusts to the college game but I am concerned for next year if those two guys do not progress and become offensive threats

Running Ram · Unread post by **Running Ram** » 8 years ago

And how does the kool-aid crowd think Dan or Thorr feel about how we play in these 'big' early season games, you folks think they likey? How about what the throttling does to the 'buzz' around the program? Think Thorr's a fan of that? If those two aren't disappointed by our performance in early season 'big' games then something's wrong here and if we aren't disappointed by our performance then something's wrong here, nobody is calling for jobs or talking about reinventing the wheel, just expressing our disappointment on the forum where we get to talk about such a thing.

And for those who think its a bad look for our fans to ever be disappointed or god forbid express a concern, how do you think that compares to the look of getting rolled over anytime we get a chance to play a powerhouse? Oh my little opinion might cast some negative light on the program oops. Well I'm here to tell you it's not speculation that playing like shit in these games is a bad look, the casual fans I've been trying to convert since 2012 are beginning to have their doubts about this 'rebuild'

Answer these questions honestly and tell me Thorr or Dan are not disappointed in these missed opportunities!

Stop with the excuses, please?!! seriously, Maryland is Maryland, E.C. would have changed everything etc...

Unread post by **SGreenwell** » 8 years ago

Running Ram wrote:And how does the kool-aid crowd think Dan or Thorr feel about how we play in these 'big' early season games, you folks think they likey? How about what the throttling does to the 'buzz' around the program? Think Thorr's a fan of that? If those two aren't disappointed by our performance in early season 'big' games then something's wrong here and if we aren't disappointed by our performance then something's wrong here, nobody is calling for jobs or talking about reinventing the wheel, just expressing our disappointment on the forum where we get to talk about such a thing.

And for those who think its a bad look for our fans to ever be disappointed or god forbid express a concern, how do you think that compares to the look of getting rolled over anytime we get a chance to play a powerhouse? Oh my little opinion might cast some negative light on the program oops. Well I'm here to tell you it's not speculation that playing like shit in these games is a bad look, the casual fans I've been trying to convert since 2012 are beginning to have their doubts about this 'rebuild'

Answer these questions honestly and tell me Thorr or Dan are not disappointed in these missed opportunities!

Stop with the excuses, please?!! seriously, Maryland is Maryland, E.C. would have changed everything etc...

There is plenty of grey area between "everything is fine, nothing to see here!" and "FUCK let's close the program down." After a bad loss, understandably, the second group is much more vocal. Personally, I'm shaded more toward the first category than the second.

The Rams got waxed by what is probably going to be a Top 5 or Top 10 team; it happens. It's worrisome if the Rams lose a bunch of games by 20+ this year, but right now, I don't think there is anywhere near a large enough sample size to draw any conclusions about the 2015-16 team, nevermind 2016-17 and into the future. Any analysis of the team is based on a five-game sample, which has wildly differing results - they stomped two probably bad teams (American and Cleveland State), they lost a tough game against a borderline Top 25 / tourney team (Valpo), they beat a low to middle-pack power conference team (TCU), and they got killed by a Top 10 program (Maryland).

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 8 years ago

Our win over TCU was significant. If we lost that game we realistically could have gone 0-2 in Cancun as Illinois State is no easy win.
We were down 3 to TCU with 3 minutes to go and played a great last 3 minutes to beat TCU.
Illinois State played Maryland very tough losing by 11 but the game was closer than the final score would indicate.
TCU beat Illinois State by 11.
Point is we are really not 20-30 points worse than Maryland.
Maryland came out shooting red hot and stayed that was. We were not hot with only 2 of our 6 players having good games.
Illinois State preseason picked for 4th in the tough MVC with one player picked first team all conference.
Illinois State plays #1 ranked Kentucky this Monday night

http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/n ... llbdno8KrU

Running Ram · Unread post by **Running Ram** » 8 years ago

hahaha answer the questions...

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 8 years ago

Running Ram wrote:And how does the kool-aid crowd think Dan or Thorr feel about how we play in these 'big' early season games, you folks think they likey? How about what the throttling does to the 'buzz' around the program? Think Thorr's a fan of that? If those two aren't disappointed by our performance in early season 'big' games then something's wrong here and if we aren't disappointed by our performance then something's wrong here, nobody is calling for jobs or talking about reinventing the wheel, just expressing our disappointment on the forum where we get to talk about such a thing.

And for those who think its a bad look for our fans to ever be disappointed or god forbid express a concern, how do you think that compares to the look of getting rolled over anytime we get a chance to play a powerhouse? Oh my little opinion might cast some negative light on the program oops. Well I'm here to tell you it's not speculation that playing like shit in these games is a bad look, the casual fans I've been trying to convert since 2012 are beginning to have their doubts about this 'rebuild'

Answer these questions honestly and tell me Thorr or Dan are not disappointed in these missed opportunities!

Stop with the excuses, please?!! seriously, Maryland is Maryland, E.C. would have changed everything etc...

This is all basically nonsense because you're making up the fact that there are people telling you not to be disappointed. In fact, I challenge you to find a post I made in this thread where I criticized another poster and didn't specifically say that our fans should be disappointed in our performance in the Maryland game. What set me off were multiple posts bemoaning the fact that we now know we will not be any good NEXT YEAR based on what happened in the Maryland game. That isn't reasonable fan post-loss disappointment. That is near-satire level absurdity.

You guys should save the cute "sorry for keeping it real!!" shtick. Nobody has been criticized for being disappointed in the performance Wednesday night. Everyone wants the team to be competitive every time they take the court, and when they aren't fans (and players, coaches and administrators) have the right to be disappointed. But fans should also keep some perspective and realize that it is one game, these things happen and the season moves on.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

If we stink it up against PC, I'll bet all of us are on common ground.

Maybe we aren't what we thought we were.

We'll find out soon enough......

However this "rebuild" isn't where it needs to be right now, EC or not.

That's my opinion, and it will stay that way until certain players start playing the way we've all been told they would.....again

The Dude · Unread post by **The Dude** » 8 years ago

I'm glad the team was able to beat TCU. They had more size and will probably be a decent team by conference play. That win could bode really well for us as the year moves on.
I do however feel the team will struggle with other teams that have significantly more height than they do, until Akele becomes a viable substitute that Dan feels won't be a defensive liability. In my opinion, how well the freshman develop this season will be what makes or breaks the teams chances of a NCAA Tournament berth. I'm crossing my fingers that Has can instill some shot blocking skills and defensive confidence into Akele before the Houston and Nebraska games. The team can't afford to lose to them if they don't managed to beat PC.

Running Ram · Unread post by **Running Ram** » 8 years ago

TruePoint wrote:I kind of find it ironic that our fans are so critical of the team when our fans are much worse at being fans than any of our players are at playing on their worst day. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but too many of our opinions put on display a remarkable lack of knowledge or perspective about basketball.

Hey numbnut, you wrote this.

You attack the segment of the KB fanbase that is "critical," you call knowledge and perspective into question, by comparing the bad fans to players you are calling the players bad.

so no this is not non-sense, it is your lawyery way of not answering ze questions!!

TruePoint wrote:
Running Ram wrote:And how does the kool-aid crowd think Dan or Thorr feel about how we play in these 'big' early season games, you folks think they likey? How about what the throttling does to the 'buzz' around the program? Think Thorr's a fan of that? If those two aren't disappointed by our performance in early season 'big' games then something's wrong here and if we aren't disappointed by our performance then something's wrong here, nobody is calling for jobs or talking about reinventing the wheel, just expressing our disappointment on the forum where we get to talk about such a thing.

And for those who think its a bad look for our fans to ever be disappointed or god forbid express a concern, how do you think that compares to the look of getting rolled over anytime we get a chance to play a powerhouse? Oh my little opinion might cast some negative light on the program oops. Well I'm here to tell you it's not speculation that playing like shit in these games is a bad look, the casual fans I've been trying to convert since 2012 are beginning to have their doubts about this 'rebuild'

Answer these questions honestly and tell me Thorr or Dan are not disappointed in these missed opportunities!

Stop with the excuses, please?!! seriously, Maryland is Maryland, E.C. would have changed everything etc...
This is all basically nonsense because you're making up the fact that there are people telling you not to be disappointed. In fact, I challenge you to find a post I made in this thread where I criticized another poster

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 8 years ago

Right, I wrote it and I stand by it. Saying that next season is now doomed because we got blown out by a good team early in this season shows a remarkable lack of perspective and knowledge about basketball and is much worse display of "fanhood" than the worst performance by any of our players. Has absolutely nothing to do with people being disappointed in the performance against Maryland, as I was as disappointed as anybody.

Also, I am always skeptical of people who quote someone and omit half of a sentence that qualifies the other half. Do better than that.

Running Ram · Unread post by **Running Ram** » 8 years ago

haha just being lawyery, figured you'd appreciate that. BTW, the whole post is available for the reading anytime here in this thread on page 7, how's that? better? I gave the reader the source of reference.

No, but on the real tip my buddy there are like two people that expressed anything about next season and their reexamined expectations. So you must get where I'm going with this...

You take the opinion of two people and you use it to describe a group of people, in this case that group includes me via the fact that I was critical of the performance in this game. You have a habit of doing this, its sneaky at best and a little dishonest if you ask me.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 8 years ago

What set me off was reading that stuff about next year, which I admit I didn't count the number of posts, but it was in multiple posts just before I posted. That is specifically what I was responding to. Overall, I think there is a tendency on this board toward overreaction (in both directions), so that also colored my opinion about how our fans were handling the loss. But I would never ever fault anyone for being disappointed when we get blown out on national TV, so if that is what you (the general "you") were expressing here then I was not talking to or about you.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 8 years ago

Shinze88 wrote:
RhowdyRam02 wrote:
Shinze88 wrote:I dont think the surrounding talent on Dayton and VCU is much different than us, but yet these teams still battled through adversity and held things together, how our season unfolds will tell me alot about Hurley and his ability to get run an offense that maximizes our current talent and what defense we use going forward to keep our bigs on the court (cough, cough.. zone).
I'm not normally a fan of people saying don't question coaches on a message board, that's why these things exist. That said a little intelligence is still necessary. Everyone talking about how Hurley needs to play zone needs to stop. Congratulations that your coach was able to lead your team to a third place finish in the 1984 East Bumfuck CYO Invitational by playing zone, but it's irrelevant here. Dan Hurley has built a nationally elite defensive team here, changing that isn't how we get better.
Hold on, first off, my team didn't finish 3rd, we won the '85 East Bumfuck CYO Invitational ,thank you very much. Second, I'm just saying it wouldn't hurt to mix in a change in defense at points in the game where we need to keep key players on the floor. If Hassan has to go to the bench because he picks up foul #2 before the 10 minute mark of the first half, its not sacrilege to play some zone for a few possessions. Yes, I know we are a nationally elite defense, but not so much when we play teams who are elite on offense (Maryland, Kansas, SMU.. etc). I've watched a ton of college hoops so far this season and I've yet to see a team play exclusively man defense all game, especially with the way officials are calling games. Again, defense is not going to be the reason we lose this year.

I apologize for underselling your accomplishments, I just got my CYO championships mixed up, my fault. I'd also like to point out we don't play exclusively man, we played zone against TCU at the end of the first half and they used that to cut into our lead. If we play zone, defense will be why we lose games. Our elite man defense is our only chance to have success.

eli#10 · Unread post by **eli#10** » 8 years ago

Let's get real guys. No one was more disappointed than yours truly with the game. Let's not forget that we were against a legitimate top 5 team that had a great shooting night and our best player did not play. Most of the posters have been over the top with their criticism of the team's and some player's performance.
As Aaron Rodgers said it is time for all fans to R-E-L-A-X.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 8 years ago

Running Ram wrote:And how does the kool-aid crowd think Dan or Thorr feel about how we play in these 'big' early season games, you folks think they likey? How about what the throttling does to the 'buzz' around the program? Think Thorr's a fan of that? If those two aren't disappointed by our performance in early season 'big' games then something's wrong here and if we aren't disappointed by our performance then something's wrong here, nobody is calling for jobs or talking about reinventing the wheel, just expressing our disappointment on the forum where we get to talk about such a thing.

We have people in the TCU thread calling for Hassan to shoot foul shots underhanded, someone in the Rider thread calling for our best shooter (Four) and best perimeter defender (JT) to play less and people all over the board calling for us to play less to our strength (elite man defense) so we can play more zone defense, something we're demonstrably worse at. If that's not talking about reinventing the Rhody wheel, what is?

As a team, we have certain strengths and weaknesses. Listening to a vocal portion of the people on here talk about our team, I keep thinking of Anna Paquin's character in Almost Famous talking to William Miller. She says, "if only you were British, and older, and taller, and rich." And I feel like his reply sums up nicely her comment and also what a lot of people say when they're talking about our team. "We'll then I'd be somebody else." We don't have players that would make us a high scoring team that will play zone well. We can try and move in that direction with our current roster and ultimately be horrible when we can't do it well or we can stick to the one thing we do well, elite man to man defense and hope it's good enough to get us where we want to go.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 8 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:However this "rebuild" isn't where it needs to be right now, EC or not.

How can you say this when we've had EC for all of 10 minutes this season? With EC, we would have beaten Valpo and would have looked better in losing to Maryland.

This bitch session wouldn't exist, I guarantee it.

So you are saying losing EC has not had a major effect in our ability to score the ball which was our biggest issue vs Maryland and Valpo?

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 8 years ago

Some people see the class half full, some see it half empty and rambone sees it full of rat poison ready to kill you.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 8 years ago

Again, maybe it's easier to teach defense than offense.
I watched Fazekas this year for PC.
Guy has unlimited range, and is a weapon.
Probably not the greatest athlete, but he does shoot.
Too late, but maybe staff should have been looking for guys who could put
the ball in the hoop first and coach them up on defense?
What do we hear about Stan Robinson? He's a defender who can't shoot.
Except for Four, and Iverson, nearly every player on the
roster fits that description.
Sure, defense keeps you in the game, but you need balance
to win.
Look at any of our tournament teams.
Yes, you had great defensive players like Green, Garrick and Stan Wright,
but you always had three guys who could put the offense on their backs
on all those teams.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 8 years ago

When Hurley first got here we were so bad that just staying in the games was a goal. He built an elite defense so we're in almost every game and last year we had our best team in years. And you say maybe it's easier to teach defense, but is it? Everyone always says defense is about effort, commitment, hustle, and desire. Can you teach that?

We still needed more scoring, so he added Iverson and Four. Unfortunately with EC's injury we aren't seeing the plan the way everyone thought. With EC we have the offensive weapons you say we need Rod.

We still needed size and a backup point guard, he has those guys coming in for next year.

Dan understands what we need and he goes out and gets it. Things are still going in the right direction overall, even after the massive pothole that is EC's injury.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 8 years ago

Really? We've had ONE four year front court player
score in double figures.
Show me any decent program that can say that.
EC? He's isn't very efficient, even at full strength.
Let's not make him into what he's not. He's a 41% shooter,
32% from 3.
So every game we lose, it's going to be,"Oh, if we only had EC"?
Kris Dunn went down, and Ed Cooley turned Bryce Cotten into a demon
scoring machine, and they went to the NCAA.
You can't run a program expecting an Iverson to drop in your lap,
to compensate for offense.
As for size, we've needed it from day one, not just year five.
Sorry, I don't drink Koolaide. It blurs the vision.

RAM67 · Unread post by **RAM67** » 8 years ago

To change the subject a little. Why hasn't anyone (Baltimore Sun, Washington Post, ESPN, Gottlieb, etc.) print or even mention the response from the Cancun Challenge? Turgeon and his crew seem just as volatile as Dan. By the way, I know it's been mentioned before, but Gottlieb sucks as an analyst.

Running Ram · Unread post by **Running Ram** » 8 years ago

RhowdyRam02 wrote:
Running Ram wrote:And how does the kool-aid crowd think Dan or Thorr feel about how we play in these 'big' early season games, you folks think they likey? How about what the throttling does to the 'buzz' around the program? Think Thorr's a fan of that? If those two aren't disappointed by our performance in early season 'big' games then something's wrong here and if we aren't disappointed by our performance then something's wrong here, nobody is calling for jobs or talking about reinventing the wheel, just expressing our disappointment on the forum where we get to talk about such a thing.
We have people in the TCU thread calling for Hassan to shoot foul shots underhanded, someone in the Rider thread calling for our best shooter (Four) and best perimeter defender (JT) to play less and people all over the board calling for us to play less to our strength (elite man defense) so we can play more zone defense, something we're demonstrably worse at. If that's not talking about reinventing the Rhody wheel, what is?

As a team, we have certain strengths and weaknesses. Listening to a vocal portion of the people on here talk about our team, I keep thinking of Anna Paquin's character in Almost Famous talking to William Miller. She says, "if only you were British, and older, and taller, and rich." And I feel like his reply sums up nicely her comment and also what a lot of people say when they're talking about our team. "We'll then I'd be somebody else." We don't have players that would make us a high scoring team that will play zone well. We can try and move in that direction with our current roster and ultimately be horrible when we can't do it well or we can stick to the one thing we do well, elite man to man defense and hope it's good enough to get us where we want to go.

First off nobody is talking about rolling a zone out there and hoping for the best, they're talking about not being one trick ponies! you dig? Sometimes you need to switch it up, sometimes your 'go to' plays aren't working, some zones are as or more aggressive than man to man.

And nobody will answer the friggin questions!!! and I'll tell you all why...Because the answers are too obvious...Somebody, anybody, tell me I'm wrong, that Dan and Thorr don't understand the 'dashing of the buzz' that comes with the look we give in these early season let downs in these 'big' games. Now, don't get me wrong I'd rather finish strong than start hot, but we have to seize the opportunities to legitimize the off-season buzz that has been around the program each off-season since DH got here, one of the best ways to do that is to show up for a game like this. It's a pattern and they (the rhody bb brass) has to be disappointed by it. That is my problem with this game, my only gripe I've made and I haven't offered any thoughts about why, what I think would be better or how to fix it. We want to sell the seats and propel this thing forward we have to start strong and finish strong.

And lastly, if folks come here and have differing opinions that's fine, talk about our opinions, address specific thoughts and opinions with counter thoughts, etc... but don't attack other posters/fans lumping people together as if everyone who had a criticism of the team or game is the same person. Some of the things posted here are just ridiculous coming out of all camps. I'm guilty too, as I wouldn't hesitate to ID you as one of the Kool-aid crowd...

eli#10 · Unread post by **eli#10** » 8 years ago

Hey Rod-if I remember EC, as a SOPHOMORE played last year with a bad foot. He is able to do a lot of good things off the dribble when healthy so I would think a bad foot really hurt all of his offensive statistics last year.
To all you negative posters--R-E-L-A-X.

DeanDome88 · Unread post by **DeanDome88** » 8 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Really? We've had ONE four year front court player
score in double figures.
Show me any decent program that can say that.
EC? He's isn't very efficient, even at full strength.
Let's not make him into what he's not. He's a 41% shooter,
32% from 3.
So every game we lose, it's going to be,"Oh, if we only had EC"?
Kris Dunn went down, and Ed Cooley turned Bryce Cotten into a demon
scoring machine, and they went to the NCAA.
You can't run a program expecting an Iverson to drop in your lap,
to compensate for offense.
As for size, we've needed it from day one, not just year five.
Sorry, I don't drink Koolaide. It blurs the vision.

The offense would only be slightly less ugly with a healthy EC, coaching up the offense should be a priority going forward. These guys are not devoid of skills they need to be coached up a little bit. There is no reason this team can not be improved offensively. The tunnel vision approach to coaching is not going to cut it. Will Dan Hurley adapt and improve from a good to a great coach?

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 8 years ago

I wish we would take down the NIT banner from the rafters. It is a flag of failed attempts.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 8 years ago

I admit I adjusted my expectations when Matthews went down. And it was clear from Hurley's initial reaction that he was badly shaken. He's had to realign his whole approach.

steviep123 · Unread post by **steviep123** » 8 years ago

RAM67 wrote:To change the subject a little. Why hasn't anyone (Baltimore Sun, Washington Post, ESPN, Gottlieb, etc.) print or even mention the response from the Cancun Challenge? Turgeon and his crew seem just as volatile as Dan. By the way, I know it's been mentioned before, but Gottlieb sucks as an analyst.

Because the truth doesn't sell newspapers I guess.

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 8 years ago

Cmon. We have 4 legit 4 year players. EC, Hass, JT and JG. I would think everyone is adjusting expectations.

UCH21377 · Unread post by **UCH21377** » 8 years ago

We have displayed, two years in a row, that we are not at all ready to compete with the big boys, despite the pre-season buzz. I know we lost EC, but we don't appear ready to compete with the elite. If Valpo is top 25 material I'd be surprised. Many teams have looked much better. Did you watch Syracuse this weekend? They're not ranked yet. PC? They look pretty darn good. UConn lost two games but still beat Michigan in the process. We need to take a couple more steps to get to that level, and it is disappointing. No need to panic, but we still have work to do to get to that level.

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