All Atlantic 10

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

Gonebarongone wrote:
TruePoint wrote:Bembry is terrific and is a no-brainer for first team. I don't think he is POY, though, for the same reason I didn't think ARod was the MVP on a last place Rangers team.
This viewpoint drives me nuts. Where do you draw the line? 7th place, 8th place? Only taking teams that win the league? Or make NCAAs? The valuable in MVP is a semantics discussion that blowhard sportswriters use in look at me columns. Every person on every team has value. And this is Player of the Year. Not MVP. It should be the best player in the league. In my mind, it's the first guy you would take in a game of 5 on 5 if you lined every A10 player up. It's not always the best player on a winner.

rodfromcranston wrote:If it was Most VALUABLE Player, it would have to be
Briante Webber, hands down.
VCU collapsed after he went out, and HVOC became
a passe term.
The best player is Bembry, and should be POY.
Is there confusion as to the criteria on this award?

Everyone is entitled to their own criteria. I actually used to feel the same way that you guys do, but my opinion has evolved. IMO, the "who would be the first pick in a pickup game" argument is dumb because you wouldn't even need to play the season to decide it using that criteria. If you were playing a pickup game of NBA players, would you ever not pick Lebron first? So does he get the MVP every year automatically without regard for how he performed during that particular season? I also think being too hung up on the literal meaning of the word "valuable" is dumb. There has to be some combination of having performed great as a player and that performance being remotely relevant.

To me, if your team finished beyond shouting distance of first place, you aren't eligible. You might be the best player, but if your team sucks, you don't matter to me. There is no objective criteria for deciding the award, and my criteria is I think Tyler Kalinoski was the player of the year in the conference because he was great and it mattered.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 9 years ago

I think it's hard, fair or not, to go from off the radar to POY, so that for reason I think it will be Sibert, and not Kalinowski. I think Bembry was the best player but St. Joe's being terrible will hurt him a lot.

SmartyBarrett · Unread post by **SmartyBarrett** » 9 years ago

Some blogger thoughts:

http://www.a10talk.com/2015-atlantic-10-blogger-awards/

Rhody Guy · Unread post by **Rhody Guy** » 9 years ago

The lack of both Terrell and TJ from the all defensive is offensive to me.

Rhody Guy · Unread post by **Rhody Guy** » 9 years ago

Next year or the following year I expect the all defense team to be 60% Rhody Rams. Terell, Martin, Garrett.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 9 years ago

TruePoint wrote:

Everyone is entitled to their own criteria. I actually used to feel the same way that you guys do, but my opinion has evolved. IMO, the "who would be the first pick in a pickup game" argument is dumb because you wouldn't even need to play the season to decide it using that criteria. If you were playing a pickup game of NBA players, would you ever not pick Lebron first? So does he get the MVP every year automatically without regard for how he performed during that particular season? I also think being too hung up on the literal meaning of the word "valuable" is dumb. There has to be some combination of having performed great as a player and that performance being remotely relevant.

To me, if your team finished beyond shouting distance of first place, you aren't eligible. You might be the best player, but if your team sucks, you don't matter to me. There is no objective criteria for deciding the award, and my criteria is I think Tyler Kalinoski was the player of the year in the conference because he was great and it mattered.[/quote]

Well, yes, LeBron should win it every year if he was the best player. Based on performance. I don't care if they won 30 games. If he played his ass off and was the league's best player then he is the MVP. And, the pickup game line would obviously be based on something. Like watching and evaluating as the season goes on.

And, please define remotely relevant. Shouting distance? C'mon. If it first place only? Playoffs? 50 wins? This is where people get into trouble. Moving targets to fit their bias. How about just pick the guy who played the best that year?

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

A10 will throw Hassan Defensive POY instead of 1st team. Still BS but I am guessing that is how it goes.

You would think with coaches deciding it wouldnt come down to PPG stats, and be more about their overall skill sets and production. But look at the Big East, Dom Pointer could have been POY and ended up 2nd team in lieu of two guys - Archidiacono and Harrison - who have better offensive numbers. For me it should be

Kalinoski - POY
Sibert
Bembry
Martin
Anthony

Gibbs
Pierre
Matthews
Pollard
Larsen or Sullivan

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

Gonebarongone wrote:
TruePoint wrote:
Everyone is entitled to their own criteria. I actually used to feel the same way that you guys do, but my opinion has evolved. IMO, the "who would be the first pick in a pickup game" argument is dumb because you wouldn't even need to play the season to decide it using that criteria. If you were playing a pickup game of NBA players, would you ever not pick Lebron first? So does he get the MVP every year automatically without regard for how he performed during that particular season? I also think being too hung up on the literal meaning of the word "valuable" is dumb. There has to be some combination of having performed great as a player and that performance being remotely relevant.

To me, if your team finished beyond shouting distance of first place, you aren't eligible. You might be the best player, but if your team sucks, you don't matter to me. There is no objective criteria for deciding the award, and my criteria is I think Tyler Kalinoski was the player of the year in the conference because he was great and it mattered.
Well, yes, LeBron should win it every year if he was the best player. Based on performance. I don't care if they won 30 games. If he played his ass off and was the league's best player then he is the MVP. And, the pickup game line would obviously be based on something. Like watching and evaluating as the season goes on.

And, please define remotely relevant. Shouting distance? C'mon. If it first place only? Playoffs? 50 wins? This is where people get into trouble. Moving targets to fit their bias. How about just pick the guy who played the best that year?

That is what I feel I'm doing. The whole nature of the award is subjective, otherwise they'd give it to the guy with the best PER or most win shares. But they don't do that, they vote on it and whoever the most people feel was the best player gets the award. On the pickup game....if you had one game to win for a million dollars or something, you wouldn't pick the guy who has had the best year. You would pick the guy most likely to have the best game. It is an entirely different argument. I get what you're saying, I just don't think the MVP (or MOP) should be based on who you would pick in a pickup game. It should go to the guy who was the best that year.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 9 years ago

bigappleram wrote:A10 will throw Hassan Defensive POY instead of 1st team. Still BS but I am guessing that is how it goes.

You would think with coaches deciding it wouldnt come down to PPG stats, and be more about their overall skill sets and production. But look at the Big East, Dom Pointer could have been POY and ended up 2nd team in lieu of two guys - Archidiacono and Harrison - who have better offensive numbers. For me it should be

Kalinoski - POY
Sibert
Bembry
Martin
Anthony

Gibbs
Pierre
Matthews
Pollard
Larsen or Sullivan

No Graham?

PeterRamTime · Unread post by **PeterRamTime** » 9 years ago

I don't even feel like anybody should be player of the year. There has not been one clear cut best player in this league the whole season.
Screw anyone who doesn't think Jared Terrell Shouldn't be on the defensive team. The only players close to as good as him, as far as locking people down are Tj Buchanan and Jarvis Garrett.

RAM67 · Unread post by **RAM67** » 9 years ago

Agreed PRT
All Defensive team:
Martin
Terell
Garett
Buchanan
Weber

How satisfying is that?

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

Iggy1979 wrote:
bigappleram wrote:A10 will throw Hassan Defensive POY instead of 1st team. Still BS but I am guessing that is how it goes.

You would think with coaches deciding it wouldnt come down to PPG stats, and be more about their overall skill sets and production. But look at the Big East, Dom Pointer could have been POY and ended up 2nd team in lieu of two guys - Archidiacono and Harrison - who have better offensive numbers. For me it should be

Kalinoski - POY
Sibert
Bembry
Martin
Anthony

Gibbs
Pierre
Matthews
Pollard
Larsen or Sullivan
No Graham?

Doh! Yes Graham bumps Anthony down to 2nd Team for me. Anthony replaces Larsen/Sullivan. Gibbs doesnt have the body of work but is hard to leave off any listing of the Top 10 players for me.

A little birdie told me I'd be pretty happy with All Conf selections, no clue what that could mean.

Blue Man · Unread post by **Blue Man** » 9 years ago

Though deserving as a freshman, Terrell doesn't have the defensive stats in the box score that would put him there.

Rhody NEVER gets any respect when it comes to these type of things, and I don't expect anyone to have bothered watching more than 2 or 3 of our games. Without something on the stat sheet, no way a freshman from URI makes it on there.

TJ on the other hand, stat sheet or not, he's a senior and is usually on the best scoring threat from the other team...and locks him down. It would be a disservice to not have 2 players from the clear cut best defensive team in the conference, not on the conference all-defensive team.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

should be released shortly, now i am hearing tidbits that piss me off. Blue Man is right we always get the shaft on these awards.

Section104 · Unread post by **Section104** » 9 years ago

With how we normally get shafted I could see Matthews 2nd team, Martin 3rd, and Weber over Martin for DPOY.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 9 years ago

A-10 Awards are out:

http://www.atlantic10.com/pdf9/3272408.pdf

URI honorees:
Matthews and Martin 2nd team
Martin All Defensive Team
Biruta All Academic Team
Terrell All Rookie Team

twisted3829 · Unread post by **twisted3829** » 9 years ago

i'm ok with Weber getting defensive player of the year (i guess) but it's Hassan's award the next 2 years

Section104 · Unread post by **Section104** » 9 years ago

Section104 wrote:With how we normally get shafted I could see Matthews 2nd team, Martin 3rd, and Weber over Martin for DPOY.

Yup. Pretty much happened.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

It stinks! How does someone who hasn't played since January, get defensive POY?
Same bullshit from the A-10 writers, coaches and followers, who regard URI as an
afterthought.
How did Archie Miller not get COY? Nobody did more with less, and under worse circumstances.
Tom Penders used this in 1988, when Tommy Garrick didn't make the A-10 team.
Garrick went out and got 50 points against Rutgers in the opening playoff game.
Hurley should similarly use the lack of respect as a motivational tool.
Now I really want us to win this, to show these clowns how wrong they are.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 9 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:It stinks! How does someone who hasn't played since January, get defensive POY?
Same bullshit from the A-10 writers, coaches and followers, who regard URI as an
afterthought.
How did Archie Miller not get COY? Nobody did more with less, and under worse circumstances.
Tom Penders used this in 1988, when Tommy Garrick didn't make the A-10 team.
Garrick went out and got 50 points against Rutgers in the opening playoff game.
Hurley should similarly use the lack of respect as a motivational tool.
Now I really want us to win this, to show these clowns how wrong they are.

Weber was a sympathy vote in response to his injury. You can bet however that if URI had a great defensive player miss that many games, there would be no way in hell he would get such favorable treatment. St Bonaventure's Jaylen Adams (late season injury-missed 7 games) didn't get the same love Weber did as he was left off the rookie team. There are some programs in this league that get little respect.

sf2010 · Unread post by **sf2010** » 9 years ago

Anthony on 1st team = horseshit.

I respect and feel for Weber, but missing half the conference season I can't support him getting DPOY - should have been Hassan.

Not surprised that EC/Hass got 2nd team.

Jones for 6th man had the numbers, but TJ was the best, most influential bench player in the league bar none though I never expected him to win the award.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

I think overall we didn't really get shafted. Can definitely make an argument that Martin was the DPOY, but I understand the sentiment behind giving it to Weber. I also would have loved to see TJ get 6th man, and he would have deserved it, but I can't get super pissed about him not getting it. Beyond that, what's the beef?

Andrew · Unread post by **Andrew** » 9 years ago

At last tally, Weber still had 13 more steals than next closest guy, and he missed a lot of games. I would have obviously preferred if Hass won it, but I understand why they gave it to Weber.

Rhody15 · Unread post by **Rhody15** » 9 years ago

EC or Hassan HAS to be first team over Kendall Anthony, and normally, the best defensive player on the best defensive team, for the duration of conference play, gets the award. Therefore it should have been Hassan. Obviously if Weber played the whole year, that award would have belonged to him.

twisted3829 · Unread post by **twisted3829** » 9 years ago

I think Hassan and EC split the vote of the coaches, if the teams are in order they tied for the last spot on the 2nd team

PlayMikeMotenMore · Unread post by **PlayMikeMotenMore** » 9 years ago

Looks kosher to me.

sf2010 · Unread post by **sf2010** » 9 years ago

Besides Hassan for DPOY, not too much of a beef here. I just plain don't like Kendall Anthony and don't think he deserved first team, but I wouldn't necessarily have picked EC/Hass to replace him.

STC · Unread post by **STC** » 9 years ago

No issue with any of the winners. Seems to be on point.

sf2010 · Unread post by **sf2010** » 9 years ago

twisted3829 wrote:I think Hassan and EC split the vote of the coaches, if the teams are in order they tied for the last spot on the 2nd team

The teams are all listed in alphabetical order by the schools they play for.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Love people who just lie down and say, "Oh, it's fine."
We got screwed, Period. Anthony on the first team is
a joke.
TJ not being on the All Defensive team is a joke.
Martin not getting Defensive POY is a joke.
Miller not getting COY is a joke. Other than Ed Cooley last year,
I can't recall a coach doing more with less than Miller did this season.

twisted3829 · Unread post by **twisted3829** » 9 years ago

sf2010 wrote:
twisted3829 wrote:I think Hassan and EC split the vote of the coaches, if the teams are in order they tied for the last spot on the 2nd team
The teams are all listed in alphabetical order by the schools they play for.

i wasn't looking at school name i was looking at players names

Rhodyhooopz · Unread post by **Rhodyhooopz** » 9 years ago

Reminds me of 1988 all over again. Dan needs to call Penders and ask how he handled it because if I remember right. Tommy came out and dropped 50 on West Va the game after the awards were announced.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 9 years ago

If you're giving the DPOY award to Weber, because of the time he missed, it's a lifetime achievement award. And that's fine if you're consistent, but they weren't when it came to 6th Man. There's no way Jones should have won it over TJ. TJ, in 5.7 fewer minutes per game was superior than Jones in every statistical category on a per game basis other than points, and that doesn't even bring into play the leadership and intangibles that TJ brings.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Love people who just lie down and say, "Oh, it's fine."
We got screwed, Period. Anthony on the first team is
a joke.
TJ not being on the All Defensive team is a joke.
Martin not getting Defensive POY is a joke.
Miller not getting COY is a joke. Other than Ed Cooley last year,
I can't recall a coach doing more with less than Miller did this season.

Other than Anthony being on first team (which is definitely a joke), I just objectively don't think any of these things you're saying are true. I would have voted for Martin and TJ, but I can't really say I believe it is so clear cut in their favor that I fault anyone for not doing so. And the Miller thing you're just flat wrong about. He didn't have a lot of guys, but the guys he did have are very good. I honestly wouldn't have even thought to consider Miller. McKillop was the clear #1 there, and I think Hurley would have also been more deserving and possibly Mooney as well.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 9 years ago

No problem with EC as a second teamer. To me, the game is much more than who scored the most points. However, if you didn't have Hassan as one of the five best players in the A10, you are nuts. What's most mind boggling is that these come from the coaches. How can you have coached against HM and not know what he brings. Crazy. And, this goes without saying, he was the league's best defender.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 9 years ago

Rod, I have to disagree with you on Miller for COY. He played with fire, recruited low character guys, and got burned by them. Yeah his team was shorthanded, but it was shorthanded due to his own actions in bringing in poor character guys and he shouldn't be rewarded for it. If he gets credit for playing shorthanded, he gets knocked down pegs for his dangerous recruiting.

To me, and I know I'm going to sound like a homer, it should have been between Hurley and McKillop with Hurley on top. We had the same conference record as Dayton and it's because of the fantastic job Hurley's done building everything from a nuclear wasteland in such a short time. And for McKillop to bring a team up a level in play and win the conference speaks for itself, though I'm more impressed by a coach who builds from nothing then a coach who had his program and players in place and ended up successful in a new conference. Miller should be a distant third to Hurley and McKillop.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

Agree with all who thought Hassan Martin is hands down one of the best 5 performers in the league this year. It seems inarguable. I also could understand this more coming from writers, but when Coaches make these choices its even more boggling. Anthony is and always has been overrated. And lastly the Philly bias is alive and well, Jordan Price on 2nd Team. Are you F-ing kidding me, our own Xavier Munford was never even close to All Conference and Price has similar game and stats for an albeit slightly better team.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Sorry, other than Ed Cooley last year, I don't recall a coach doing more with less
than Miller.
Nobody over 6'6", no bench at all, and he wins 23 games.
So, by RR2's logic, Ed Cooley isn't a good coach, because two of his
players got booted last year?
Oh, OK. So he didn't coach the guys who were left to the NCAAs?

URI_IEP · Unread post by **URI_IEP** » 9 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Love people who just lie down and say, "Oh, it's fine."
We got screwed, Period. Anthony on the first team is
a joke.
TJ not being on the All Defensive team is a joke.
Martin not getting Defensive POY is a joke.
Miller not getting COY is a joke. Other than Ed Cooley last year,
I can't recall a coach doing more with less than Miller did this season.

Love people that always think they're being disrespected...

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 9 years ago

Miller would not have surprised me. But, coaching (as we know) is more than just Xs and Os. McKillop took a team picked to finish 12th or so and won the league outright. All while going into new gyms, scouting new teams, all on the fly. You could make a case he is coach of the year in all of D1.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 9 years ago

I'm not saying he's a bad coach, but if you give credit to a coach for playing shorthanded then you have to examine why they're playing shorthanded in the first place. If Miller was shorthanded because of injuries or he inherited thieves, then yeah he should be coach of the year. But he was shorthanded because of his own actions when he brought criminals on campus. College coaches should be examined on their whole body of work, because they're coach and GM. Miller the coach was phenomenal, Miller the GM is iffy. He brought in both very talented players and criminals. I don't give a guy extra credit for overcoming a self inflicted wound. Maybe don't shoot yourself in the foot next time.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 9 years ago

Now its time for EC and Hassan to show their stuff in the A10 Tournament - time to get mad, and typically these two guys react favorably to being slighted.
If you told me the team predicted to finish 12th ended up winning the Conference and did so winning 8 straight games, I'd have to say that Coach should get COY no matter who he is. On top of that Davidson performs like a oiled machine, very well coached and lost arguably their best player in Gibbs to a miniscus injury for 7 League Games.
Hurley ordinarily could have won this award going from predicted 6th to finishing 3rd, but what Davidson accomplished was quite amazing. Hurley probably finished 2nd in the voting.
Go back to preseason message board commentary and there were a lot of negative vibes directed towards Davidsonl, some even criticized their addition to our league.

Agree Anthony does not belong on 1st team.
Fordham has a better Freshman than Paschal yet Paschal got Freshman of the Year - I'll take the German kid any day.

Sweep The Leg · Unread post by **Sweep The Leg** » 9 years ago

RhowdyRam02 wrote:If you're giving the DPOY award to Weber, because of the time he missed, it's a lifetime achievement award. And that's fine if you're consistent, but they weren't when it came to 6th Man. There's no way Jones should have won it over TJ. TJ, in 5.7 fewer minutes per game was superior than Jones in every statistical category on a per game basis other than points, and that doesn't even bring into play the leadership and intangibles that TJ brings.

Those were my thoughts exactly regarding Weber. But, when you have a game altering 6'7 center, for intensive purposes, who averages close to 8 rebounds and 3 blocks a game including a Shaq like 10 blocks in one game, who played the entire season, how can you not give it to Hassan or have them share Co-DPOY?

If there was not another close DPOY candidate, I think giving the award to Weber is fine. His impact on Havoc wasn't fully realized until he was out and VCU looked vulnerable on top of the fact he would have easily broken the all-time steals record. But, Hassan would have challenged him if Weber played all year long.

Rhody15 · Unread post by **Rhody15** » 9 years ago

EC deserved second team the more that I think about it, but I have a grip with Anthony over Hassan for first team.

Only thing I can think of, is that Anthony is a senior, Richmond has been red hot, and Hassan has two more years to make first team. Same thing with Weber as DPOY.

Rhody83 · Unread post by **Rhody83** » 9 years ago

A10 awards announced. Rhody shutout.
First Team All-#A10MBB -- Tyler Kalinoski (Dav), Jordan Sibert (UD), Kendall Anthony (Rich), Treveon Graham (VCU), DeAndre' Bembry (SJU).

2nd Team All-#A10MBB: Jack Gibbs (Dav), Brian Sullivan (Dav), Dyshawn Pierre (UD), Jordan Price (LS), Hassan Martin (URI), EC Matthews (URI)

@BillKoch25: #A10MBB awards: POY -- Tyler Kalinoski, Dav. COY -- Bob McKillop, Dav. ROY -- Eric Paschall, Ford. Def. POY -- Briante Weber, VCU,Most improved --Kendall Pollard, UD. Sixth Man -- ShawnDre' Jones, Duquesne.

@BillKoch25: #A10MBB All-Rookie Team -- Peyton Aldridge (Dav), Eric Paschall (Ford), Chris Sengfelder (Ford). Milik Yarbrough (SLU), Jared Terrell (URI).

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 9 years ago

Some posters are ok with EC and Hass being 2nd team while Anthony is 1st team!!!?

Uri is the 3 seed. Only argument is which uri guy gets the 1st team nod. Head to head EC destroyed Richmond down there.

Anthony is good for 1.3 rebounds a game and 2.3 assists. Ec out scored him out rebounded him, same dimes.

Bembry 1st team??? Because he does something munford did with more height?

Weber gets the lifetime achievement award.

BROOKLYN is the equalizer.

hrstrat57 · Unread post by **hrstrat57** » 9 years ago

This is setting up nice for steamrolling the A10 tourney.

Nothing beats bulletin board material!

Perfect! Go get it!

BPR2010 · Unread post by **BPR2010** » 9 years ago

You're crazy if you don't think Bembry deserves 1st team. He's arguably the best and most talented player in the league, just plays on a crap team. I'd say averaging 18/8/4 a game is 1st team worthy, he does everything for Joe's.

Agreed about Weber, that award was due to the culmination of his career. However, he plays a full season there is no doubt he gets the award.

Thought TJ should've been included on All-Defense, not sure Garino is ahead of him. Hass should've been first team, he was miles better than EC this season and way more important to this team.

Otherwise I agreed with everything else. Davidson gets the top awards and they deserve it. They won the conference, plain and simple. To transition and do so well, so quickly, is impressive.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 9 years ago

Weber gets named conference DPOY yet he doesn't even make the official A-10 top stats leaders because he failed to play in 75% of his team's games.

The Bonnies Adams did qualify for conference individual stats yet couldn't even make the rookie team.

A-10 once again has different standards for different programs. VCU, St. Joe's and Dayton always get the benefit of the doubt in this league. Teams such as URI and SBU never do.

A-10 Stats Leaders
http://www.atlantic10.com//ViewContent. ... ID=1025874

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 9 years ago

I've been pretty clear on where I stand on HM but you can absolutely make a case for Anthony over EC. EC ends 23% of his possessions with a turnover. And only 15% with an assist. Anthony was 11% turnover...15% assist. EC's offensive rating was 96....Anthony was 106.7. Making 38% of your threes is a big in college hoops when you have the ball in your hands a bunch.

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