So About Those Free Throws...

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

Truly a visionary, that Frank.

His teams were good. Wonder why.

Somebody tell Dan, I think we're on to something......

Our players need a swift kick in the ass when it comes to FT shooting....

Harsh? You betcha!

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

I hadn't realized that after he retired as URI coach, he was offered the job
as Boston Celtics head coach.
His doctors told him he should not do it, due to his poor health.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 9 years ago

Frank led our greatest era. Rod is right about Rick Barry. Shot about 90 percent for his career ... underhand.

Taylor Swift · Unread post by **Taylor Swift** » 9 years ago

bressler3south wrote:
Taylor Swift wrote:Buying books was the most dreaded part of my college experience.

It killed me, too! Imagine, paying $200 for a couple of comic books…………..

Try $300 a semester. Damn you poli sci degree! I did have a professor who actually tried to dupe us into buying her progressive illustrated "book" for $30.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Probably a commie prof.

ElmCityRhody · Unread post by **ElmCityRhody** » 9 years ago

after a busy weekend.. just caught up to this

we were 18-33 vs Delaware State ?

emBARONsing

TIRED OF THIS SH*T

McRam · Unread post by **McRam** » 9 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Probably a commie prof.

Redundant!

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

ECR, Dan is trying to model his program after Shaka's at VCU.

Well, Shaka's team is even worse then we are at FT's, at least so far this year.

So, there's that......

McRam · Unread post by **McRam** » 9 years ago

ElmCityRhody wrote:after a busy weekend.. just caught up to this

we were 18-33 vs Delaware State ?

emBARONsing

TIRED OF THIS SH*T

It was actually much worse in the first half where they were 8 for 19! 10-14 second half,

for the game we were 14-29 without the 4 for 4 of watson and younkofski

Does anyont know what Terrell shot from the free throw line in High School?

ElmCityRhody · Unread post by **ElmCityRhody** » 9 years ago

I am grateful.. I am grateful that dan is here and has us on the upward trend

I don't want to come off as not realizing that

but FT's are very important to winning and losing for bubble teams

knock down your FTs and wins will come a lot easier

nothing frustrates me more than clanks off the rims from the "charity stripe"

we shouldn't strive for 70%..

we should strive for a higher %..

I know.. crawl before walking..
but we need to do something different here in terms of increasing our %

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

That rim-within-a-rim thing sounds like it would help. A lot.

Would really help them focus more.

ElmCityRhody · Unread post by **ElmCityRhody** » 9 years ago

http://www.wikihow.com/Shoot-a-Free-Throw

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 9 years ago

Why exactly are we taking out the guys that shot well? We know they were bad Saturday, there's no reason to make it artificially worse. Should we take out all the guys that shot poorly so we look like we did better? We won and we won big, I'll take it.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

This is honestly the worst thread ever.

ElmCityRhody · Unread post by **ElmCityRhody** » 9 years ago

haha TP... hopefully you realize the link I sent was all tongue in cheek...

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

ElmCityRhody wrote:haha TP... hopefully you realize the link I sent was all tongue in cheek...

No I gotcha. And I get the frustration. I can see somebody making the point that they wish we shot FTs better, then others agreeing. But we are really driving this topic into the ground here.

ElmCityRhody · Unread post by **ElmCityRhody** » 9 years ago

fair enough !

getting that last picture from you made my last post worth it.. haha

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 9 years ago

Love the picture TP!

For all the consternation in here about free throws, it hasn't been an indicator of if we'll win or not. We're 2-1 in games where we have a better percentage than our opponents, 4-2 in games where we have a worse percentage. We have the same winning percentage no matter how we shoot free throws. What is a good indicator is rebounding. We're 6-0 when we outrebound our opponents, 0-3 when we get outrebounded.

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 9 years ago

Looks like he's beating a dead camel.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

Thanks Rhowdy for illustrating how other stats are much more impactful on Ws and Ls. Lets be clear, everyone including me wants our FT shooting to improve, but to me there are other issues that will dictate how successful we will be to a much greater degree. Defensive FG%, TOs, Assists, Rebounding margin...

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 9 years ago

TruePoint wrote:
ElmCityRhody wrote:haha TP... hopefully you realize the link I sent was all tongue in cheek...
No I gotcha. And I get the frustration. I can see somebody making the point that they wish we shot FTs better, then others agreeing. But we are really driving this topic into the ground here.

It was beaten into the ground about 300 posts ago................

Running Ram · Unread post by **Running Ram** » 9 years ago

Those of you who want to minimize this subject, fine, but the commentators on Saturday agreed with those of us who think its an issue. I'm pretty sure Chris Disano was one of the crew.

To be fair though, they haven't cost us a game yet this year when you consider we made 14 of 18 in the GTech game, I don't expect much better than that.

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 9 years ago

Yeah. We don't want to be known as the And None squad.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Add a few more points to a lead, and it makes a big difference
in a game.
Take a few point from a deficit, and it makes a big difference in the game.
Even if the missed free throws don't equal the final margin, either way.
To try to minimize this is nonsense. The object of the game is to score points.
These are free! We're pissing away opporitunity every game
We're 315 out of 351 in free throws. That means we stink.
Trying fluff it off is like it's of little consequence is absurd.
To those who find this discussion tedious, skip the thread.
Simple, right?

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

I would assume the 1,000 posts about it make it obvious its of little consequence. The point is that there are other ills of this team which
A.) warrant as much if not more discussion and B.) seem to impact our W-L record in a more direct fashion. To me turnovers are the biggest area of improvement/concern. Our shooting % is great (49% - 29th in the country), but if we don't even get a shot up its a moot point. Wasted possessions cost us games more than FTs. See the GTech game as a perfect example. 78% Free Throws, 16 Turnovers.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote: We're 315 out of 351 in free throws. That means we stink.

I think if we were actually 315 of 351 we'd be thrilled. That is about 90%. Haha.

Anyways, I don't disagree that free throws are important. I just don't understand what talking about it incessantly accomplishes. Everyone knows we are a bad FT shooting team. The only way we will be a better FT shooting team is to get better shooters on the roster. Not sure why it is such a popular thing to talk about other than maybe because you don't need to know a ton about the sport to know that shooting 60% as a team isn't good. But there are other things that are potentially fixable that are just as important. I had some opinions about our gameplan against PC; nobody wanted to talk about that even though maybe some people had different opinion. Instead everyone wants to jump on the pile of people complaining about FTs. Wonder why.

Unread post by **SGreenwell** » 9 years ago

Running Ram wrote:Those of you who want to minimize this subject, fine, but the commentators on Saturday agreed with those of us who think its an issue. I'm pretty sure Chris Disano was one of the crew.

I definitely think the free throw shooting and distance shooting in general is an issue, but I also thought that TP brought up a good point in one of these threads - Hurley probably didn't have the luxury of getting good athletes who could also shoot well. I think he made a conscious decision to go after guys who could defend really well and play at a quick pace. If they can do that and shoot well, then they're either a highly rated prospect probably out of URI's grasp currently (given the low win totals of the program) or a guy who was probably rated too lowly initially (EC).

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

I wonder if hearing the crowd moan after a miss helps a 19 year old relax for the next shot

its like when a guy is in a hitting slump, he grips the bat tighter, just exacerbating the problem further. For many of our guys the issue to me seems Focus (mental), not Form. Gil, Jared, Jarvis, Hassan all have good mechanics from the line.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 9 years ago

Don Kaull says free throws are 80% mental. I agree.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

Agree with that SG, it's hard to win in college basketball without the 3-point shot being part of your arsenal.

ElmCityRhody · Unread post by **ElmCityRhody** » 9 years ago

Keep in mind that I started this thread during the PC game and after missed FTs

I am Italian.. I got emotional.. So I spouted off..

Now, if only I had a Twitter account.. You be calling my Tom penders

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

The 315 out of 351 are the RANKINGS OF THE FREE THROW
INEPTITUDE!. That's 315 out of 351 schools. DUH!
Geez!
If you bitch and moan about us bitching and moaning about'shit ass free throw shooting,
lock the fucking thread up!
Why bother having a discussion board?
If some of us think it's a problem and others don't,
I DON'T GIVE A FLYING SHIT! GOT IT!

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:The 315 out of 351 are the RANKINGS OF THE FREE THROW
INEPTITUDE!. That's 315 out of 351 schools. DUH!
Geez!
If you bitch and moan about us bitching and moaning about'shit ass free throw shooting,
lock the fucking thread up!
Why bother having a discussion board?
If some of us think it's a problem and others don't,
I DON'T GIVE A FLYING SHIT! GOT IT!

Rod, I get it. That was the joke.

Now settle down. You can talk about whatever you want to talk about here (within reason, obviously). I am also entitled to my opinion. I think it is a silly thing to talk about, not because FTs aren't important, but because I think being a good or bad FT shooting team is basically an immutable trait of a team. It is like complaining about the team's height. It just is what it is, and we'll have to do other things well to win.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

Believe me Rod, when we blow a game due to our poor FT shooting, they will get on board with the rest of us.

So they are tired of us bitching about it. Too fucking bad!

It's a problem, if it doesn't get fixed, it's going to cost us big time. Anybody who doesn't think so, has their head in the sand!!!!!

This team has a couple of weeks, right now, to practice them until their hands bleed.

That's their last real chance before the conference sked begins.

Dan needs to emphasis this issue now. There is no room for excuses.

TP, you're saying there is no way we can get better at it, just accept it? BULLCRAP.

PC went from 65% to almost 80% in one year, with basically the same players. It CAN be done. We don't need a 15% improvement nor should we expect that, but half that would be fine.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

Anybody remember Memphis a few years ago? That team had a ton of talent, and won games in spite of being terrible from the line.

We don't have that luxury. They blew the final to Kansas, when they couldn't make a free throw to save their asses in crunch time.

Coach Cal admitted it afterward. He said they didn't spend enough time practicing them, or emphasizing them, until it cost them big time.

On another level, the same will happen to us. If we're going to be the best that we can be, how can that happen if we ignore an important part of the game?

Yeah, just accept the fact that we suck at the line. THAT is as piss poor an excuse as I've ever heard, any where, any time.

We are NOT GOOD ENOUGH to make up for that shortcoming.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

You can get marginally better, but a drastic jump is not likely with the same players. We don't have any good shooters in our rotation. That is the type player Hurley wanted to play "his style" so, yes, in my opinion we'll just have to live with it unless we add better shooters to our roster.

A big part of PC's improvement from '12-13 to '13-14 was the increased amount of shots that Cotton took. In 12-13, he shot 80% and accounted for 25% of the teams attempts. In 13-14, Cotton slightly increased his percentage to 85%, but more importantly accounted for 32% of the teams' attempts.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

That is the sentiment that is so ridiculous....that we should allocate a disproportionate amount of time to practicing foul shots because we are shooting them below average. We should be practicing pressure defense, our zone offense, execution in the half court, getting our bigs more touches, shooting in general. All contribute to the W-L tally more than FT shooting.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 9 years ago

Through the first 1/3rd of the season (9 games) results for FT's with minimum 10 attempts are:
87% (13-15) Buchanan
68% (28-41) Mathews - Starter
59% (20-34) Martin - Starter
58% (19-33) Terrell - Starter
55% (6-11) Reischel
50% (10-20) Watson
50% (7-14) Garrett
47% (9-19) Biruta - Starter

For 3 Point Shooting based on minimum of 10 attempts:
50% (6-12) Butler
38% (22-58) Mathews
33% (10-33) Terrell
15% (2-13) Reischel
15% (2-13) Garrett

Free Throw accuracy revolves around only 2 players. One Player in the high 80's, none in the 70's, 1 in the high 60's, bunch in the 50's
3 Point accuracy revolves around 3 players

Running Ram · Unread post by **Running Ram** » 9 years ago

in this whole thread I've only read one comment that a practice should be dedicated to free throws, I think most of us are smart enough to know, this is the time of season (in season) game planing has to take up a bunch of prep time and that other skills and situations are more immediately impacted as compared to what practicing free throws will translate into on the court.

Also most of the guys mechanics do look pretty good, so yes it's the mental aspects of shooting free throws that we are talking about, you know how that is altered for the better? once you have your mechanics down, you practice practice practice until you achieve a rhythm that becomes ingrained, once you do, pressure/crowd noise becomes very distant. My point originally was not that DH should be focusing x amount of practice time on free throw shooting, but that someone needs to get creative in a way that reaches the players and increases their likelihood of practicing them on their own.

I get that not all players have the same kind of dedication as each other so we can't expect miracles, but to say that free throw shooting is like height is completely wrong!

Shooting free throws is a skill, height is height. I was a not so good athlete in my youth, no jumping through the roof and no flashlike speed, but my free throw shooting probably went from about 25% to about 70% in the 3 years I played basketball for school teams because I practiced them a good amount everyday of my life from about age 12 to 16, that rhythm is engrained (or ingrained? a little help with these two words please.) to this day give me 10 shots to warm up and I'll never make less than 60% and I'm being modest, that is because I probably shot at least 50,000 free throws in that four year period.

and yes Billyboy, Don Kaull is correct and he is the very person that spoke those words to me in my youth, he is also the person who taught me to minimize the emotional aspects of shooting free throws by achieving a rhythm (I'm sure some folks are sick of me talking about the rhythm of shooting). He went so far as to suggest I speak a rhythmic mantra outloud as I shoot. A friend of mine came up with this mantra for himself, which I absorbed for my own as well "I'm the man" sort of a quarter note and two eighth notes, bend, extend, follow through. Of course I don't actually say it outloud (I do recite it to myself though) saying it outloud would make for some interesting pick-up game experiences I'd bet

My larger point is, if an individual really becomes dedicated to bettering their free throw prowess it can happen, it will happen. It's how dirty drunks beat me handily at pool, better mechanics and a lot more practice. Free throw shooting is a skill, not a gift of the gods, anyone who is ambulant can increase their free throw shooting skills.

ElmCityRhody · Unread post by **ElmCityRhody** » 9 years ago

Wow.. 50% ft shooting for most of the team..

What an emBARONsement.

I agree w Running Ram..

No reason why we can't go from 55% to 75% with a little practice

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

maybe we need a Sports shrink Running? I agree with everything you are saying, I guess I was only replying to that one post then.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 9 years ago

I just read that Rajon Rondo is shooting free throws at 33% this year.

Unread post by **SGreenwell** » 9 years ago

Running Ram wrote:My larger point is, if an individual really becomes dedicated to bettering their free throw prowess it can happen, it will happen. It's how dirty drunks beat me handily at pool, better mechanics and a lot more practice. Free throw shooting is a skill, not a gift of the gods, anyone who is ambulant can increase their free throw shooting skills.

My counter would be this - For some players, I don't think it does matter how much they practice. Just like some athletes have a propensity to get injured, I imagine some just can't ever shoot free throws reliably, regardless of how much they practice. This doesn't mean that staff shouldn't try different approaches with them or not have them practice free throws, but at a certain point, there does have to be an acknowledgment that some players aren't going to improve at a certain thing.

Saying, "Well, it's a mechanical and mental thing and anyone can learn," as some have mentioned in this thread, that somewhat sidesteps that something like "psyche" is still a skill, although one that's almost impossible to measure until a player is in a program. While I don't think a "clutch" ability exists - I don't think players can get better in the final moments of a game - I do absolutely think that some players are more prone to collapsing and/or panic. See: Ryan Brooks when he wasn't in practice, JR this year from game to game, Steve Blass and Steve Sax in MLB, etc.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 9 years ago

I mentioned somewhere in this thread about using a psychiatrist. I wasn't joking. Don't Kaull said the same thing on the broadcast on Saturday. If it can help the players relax, concentrate and build confidence, it's worth it. Is it in the athletic budget? That I do not know. And I agree that bad shooters aren't going to become good shooters. But if team percentage can be raised by 7 or 8 percent, it could certainly help.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 9 years ago

Billyboy78 wrote:I just read that Rajon Rondo is shooting free throws at 33% this year.

Brad Stevens should have him practice free throws. Also, Tom Izzo, Phil Martelli, Dave Rice, and Buzz Williams should read more message boards so they can learn about practicing free throws.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 9 years ago

BFC wrote:
Billyboy78 wrote:I just read that Rajon Rondo is shooting free throws at 33% this year.
Brad Stevens should have him practice free throws. Also, Tom Izzo, Phil Martelli, Dave Rice, and Buzz Williams should read more message boards so they can learn about practicing free throws.

Well, I think that was uncalled for. I'm not the one attacking the coach about this.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Why not just skip to hypnosis?
Oh, Butler is shooting 77% as a team this year.

BPR2010 · Unread post by **BPR2010** » 9 years ago

BFC wrote:
Billyboy78 wrote:I just read that Rajon Rondo is shooting free throws at 33% this year.
Brad Stevens should have him practice free throws. Also, Tom Izzo, Phil Martelli, Dave Rice, and Buzz Williams should read more message boards so they can learn about practicing free throws.

Funny you mention Izzo BFC, because he has the best 3 point shooting team in the country shooting an insane 45.6% from beyond the arc. I think someone mentioned it before on here about just getting good shooters in here will lead to better FT percentages. Well, that logic actually does work for Sparty. They have 4 guys, 3 of which are starters, who shoot above 41% from 3. Those 4 players shoot 90%, 84%, 77%, and 69% respectively from the foul line. Now, the team is a pitiful 60.6%, but the bigs bring that average way down. Problem for them is, those 3 point shooters don't get to the line enough simply because they are outside threats. Sometimes it matters who's getting to the line AND how often.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

TP, I agree with you in that most of these guys aren't going to get a whole lot better at shooting FT's.

They don't have to. But they need to improve at least a little, and I think they can. Will they?

Biruta has been brutal, 9-19 is horrible. He is what he is. Being a senior, I doubt much will change there.

It's Martin, Terrell, and Garrett that need to pick it up.

They, along with EC, are going to shoot the lion's share of FT's going forward.

OK, JT and JG are freshmen. They should get better, hopefully much better.

Martin needs to improve into the 60-65% range, not a lot but he's 4-10 the last 2 games. Needs to reverse that trend immediately.

If Dan ever starts calling plays for Martin, he's going to go to the foul line more often. If he keeps proving he can't make them, it's going to make "Hack-a-Hassan" commonplace.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 9 years ago

Billyboy78 wrote:
BFC wrote:
Billyboy78 wrote:I just read that Rajon Rondo is shooting free throws at 33% this year.
Brad Stevens should have him practice free throws. Also, Tom Izzo, Phil Martelli, Dave Rice, and Buzz Williams should read more message boards so they can learn about practicing free throws.
Well, I think that was uncalled for. I'm not the one attacking the coach about this.

I really wasn't trying to direct my sarcasm at you, more the overall thread.

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