So About Those Free Throws...

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

Bone, I do think you will see slight upticks over time for guys like Hassan and Gil, who still have relatively small sample sizes and look to be halfway decent shooters just by looking at them. It is reasonable to expect EC and Terrell will improve over the course of their careers. But I just don't believe this team will go from being a 60% FT shooting team today to an 80% FT shooting team in February and March. We are just going to have to do enough other things well to overcome being a subpar FT shooting team.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 9 years ago

Gil is shooting 20 points below his career average, he's the guy I would expect to improve the most.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

TP, again I agree with you. 60 to 80%? Not happening with this team, ever.

BUT, an improvement to 70% should be a reasonable goal, and a necessary one. We can improve in a lot of areas, but we need to include FT's also.

I would like to see EC and Jarrett at 75%, Terrell at 70%, and Hassan at 65%. Since they shoot from the line more often then the others, that would bring the team percentage close to that 70% mark.

It's not likely to happen this season, but at least start trending upward as they get into the conference schedule.

They've got some time between now and the end of the month to work on it. After that, it gets tougher to make time what with the travel and games every 3-4 days until the end of the season.

Heck, I'm not asking a lot. But the 2-3 points per game improvement, will make the difference between this team winning 18 games this season, and 20-21. That's huge.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Slightly OT, but I just don't get Gil this year.
He's not even as good as he was last year, numbers-wise.
He's better on defense, and he's in better shape.
I hope he gets it together, and doesn't waste his last year
in college.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

Rod, it's hard to put a finger on what Gil's issues are.

The talent is there. Yes he's going to struggle against bigger teams with certain matchups.

I think he's what you would call a momentum guy. When he gets it going early, and stays out of foul trouble, he maintains his aggressiveness much better. He needs to stay in games. Sitting for long stretches kills him.

As to his FT shooting, it's a mystery for sure. He should be a LOT better than he is. Like was said, he's a career high 60's shooter. He won't get there this year, unless he starts making everything. That's doubtful imo.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 9 years ago

TruePoint wrote:This is honestly the worst thread ever.

TP,
Do we know what the Top 10 worst threads ever are?

Would the 8 different Ricky Ledo threads make the Top 10? or just some of them?
There have to be some Baron threads in the worst Top 10.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

CFL threads are the best!

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

All those threads and posts dedicated to that guy.

Finally rewarded when he was canned. What a long "process" that was.

Even some posters disappeared with him. Gandy, RW, etc.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

ramster wrote:
TruePoint wrote:This is honestly the worst thread ever.
TP,
Do we know what the Top 10 worst threads ever are?

Would the 8 different Ricky Ledo threads make the Top 10? or just some of them?
There have to be some Baron threads in the worst Top 10.

Sounds like an offseason project.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

Listened to some of last's night coach's show. Good for Don Kaull. He brought up our FT bugaboo.

Dan says they are really working on it, just not getting the results yet.

It's definitely a confidence issue. Says it affects the entire team when guys start missing.

Only TJ is shooting them better than what is expected.

Dan knows what will happen if it doesn't improve.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 9 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:TP, I agree with you in that most of these guys aren't going to get a whole lot better at shooting FT's.

They don't have to. But they need to improve at least a little, and I think they can. Will they?

Biruta has been brutal, 9-19 is horrible. He is what he is. Being a senior, I doubt much will change there.

It's Martin, Terrell, and Garrett that need to pick it up.

They, along with EC, are going to shoot the lion's share of FT's going forward.

OK, JT and JG are freshmen. They should get better, hopefully much better.

Martin needs to improve into the 60-65% range, not a lot but he's 4-10 the last 2 games. Needs to reverse that trend immediately.

If Dan ever starts calling plays for Martin, he's going to go to the foul line more often. If he keeps proving he can't make them, it's going to make "Hack-a-Hassan" commonplace.

Rambone,
Here are my thoughts:
- Buchanan is the most proficient FT Shooter on the team with 87% on an impressive 13-15. Many of those FT's have been in Clutch situations. I've been a proponent of TJ starting since before the season started - I'd start him ahead of Minnis and Garrett. I would allow TJ to take 3 point shots
- Mathews has also has hit in clutch situations.......I recall twice he hit all 3 FT's when fouled while shooting a 3 pointer. Judging by EC's 38% shooting from 3 I believe EC will improve on his current 68%. I think his 3 point percentage will only get better with time.
- Martin I think will improve as he has good form and I have seen him bury 3 pointers in practice consecutively over and over again. I'd bet his 59% goes up by year end. I would allow Martin to take three's as I have seen him shoot them very well in practice.
- Terrell has a respectful 33% from 3 land. I did not see him so much as a 3 point shooter when I saw him in AAU and Prep ball but he has done well with the 3 so far. I'd expect his 58% FT to improve as his career progresses but he is not known as a prolific percentage shooter. He is a tenacious defender, drives to the hoop well and a leader. I have no problem with him taking three's.
- Reischel only at 55% and only 15% on three's. Lot's of room for improvement. I would not have him shooting any threes.
- Watson impressed me with his 4-4 the other day but at Chippola he shot 62-101 for 61.4%. Maybe he improves slightly from that.
- Garrett only at 50% and only 15% on three's for about the same as Reishchel - both are 2-13 from three. I have not seen any statistics on Garrett from prep or HS so I don't really know what the upside potential is - nothing to base on. I did not see Garrett play in HS or in Prep. Not sure if it is confidence impacting his percentages or not at this point.
- Biruta only at 47%. He shot 67% last year. So upside potential but I doubt beyond 67%. Last year he shot 19% from three compared to 17% this year. I would question the Coaching staff as to why he would ever be allowed to take a three.

Through the first 1/3rd of the season (9 games) results for FT's with minimum 10 attempts are:
FT Percentage / 3 Point Percentage
100% (2-2) Butler -- 50% (6-12)
87% (13-15) Buchanan -- 33% (1-3)
68% (28-41) Mathews -- Starter 38% (22-58)
59% (20-34) Martin - Starter -- 0% (0-4)
58% (19-33) Terrell -- Starter 33% (10-33)
55% (6-11) Reischel -- 15% (2-13)
50% (10-20) Watson -- 0% (0-0)
50% (7-14) Garrett -- 15% (2-13)
47% (9-19) Biruta - Starter -- 17% (1-6)

Here are the League Stats for FT Shooting 1/3rd through the season.
URI is 13th of 14 teams
Interesting the Davidson is #1 and with an 8-1 record. Jake Gibbs leads the A10 in FT Shooting at 95% with 35-37 for Davidson.
Who would have thought preseason that we would want to circle Wednesday February 25th Davidson @ Rhode Island as a very important match up? Most left Davidson for the bottom of the barrel in the A10. December 30th is a big game for Davidson as they play AT undefeated and #6th ranked Virginia.

1.Davidson.76
2.Massachusetts.72
3.Richmond.72
4.St. Bonaventure.69
5.La Salle.69
6.George Washington.67
7.Dayton.66
8.Saint Louis.66
9.Fordham.64
10.George Mason.64
11.VCU .63
12.Saint Joseph's .61
13.Rhode Island .61
14.Duquesne .58

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 9 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:Listened to some of last's night coach's show. Good for Don Kaull. He brought up our FT bugaboo.

Dan says they are really working on it, just not getting the results yet.

It's definitely a confidence issue. Says it affects the entire team when guys start missing.

Only TJ is shooting them better than what is expected.

Dan knows what will happen if it doesn't improve.

So maybe TJ should become the Free Throw Student Teacher. Hitting 88% like he is and with his teaching and leadership capabilities give him the responsibility among his peers. He has been very impressive hitting many clutch Free Throws so far. Who would have thought they would want TJ shooting Technical Fouls before the season started? Good for him.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

OK, let me say this again, maybe reallllly slow, and maybe it'll finally sink in.
Jarvis Garrett is the future PG of URI basketball, current stats or not. Those mean squat.
Dan loves what he brings to the game, and sees what he will mean to the program.
TJ is not a point guard.
When you see Garrett flying down the floor and dishing great passed, making drives to the hoop
and getting his shot off, or the form on his 3 pointer, you know exactly
what Dan sees.
Dan is waiting for the right time to hand him the keys. Know that for a fact.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 9 years ago

bigappleram wrote:I wonder if hearing the crowd moan after a miss helps a 19 year old relax for the next shot its like when a guy is in a hitting slump, he grips the bat tighter, just exacerbating the problem further. For many of our guys the issue to me seems Focus (mental), not Form. Gil, Jared, Jarvis, Hassan all have good mechanics from the line.

This is a really interesting point, so I decided to see if there might be something to this. If free throws are mostly mental, than surely it should be much easier to make them at home, seeing as you're used to the shooting sight lines and you don't have to worry about crowd noise. This year at home the Rams are 64-110 from the foul line, or 58%. On the road or at a neutral site they actually shoot better, they're 59-92, or 64%. If you go back to last year we shot 290-441 65.76% at home to 219-338 64.79% away. So last year we were better at home, but didn't have the superiority you'd expect.

The main differences are Jared Terrell is 11-20, 55% at home but 9-13, 69.2% away. T.J. is 3-4 at home, 10-11, 90.9% away. Iffy is 0-2 at home, 2-2 on the road. Earl is 4-10 at home, 6-10 away. Jarvis is 3-7, 42.9% home 4-7, 57.1% away. It should be pretty obvious for anyone looking at this that the sample is so small as to not be predictive individually, but I think when you look at the results for the team as a whole this season and you consider that we weren't even a whole percent better at home last season that they're not shooting foul shots as well as you'd expect at home. It's impossible to say what is causing that, but I do suspect that moaning and groaning after every miss like a child being told they have to do their homework is counterproductive. Perhaps if the team played in a more positive environment they'd be able to relax and shoot a little better.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 9 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:OK, let me say this again, maybe reallllly slow, and maybe it'll finally sink in.
Jarvis Garrett is the future PG of URI basketball, current stats or not. Those mean squat.
Dan loves what he brings to the game, and sees what he will mean to the program.
TJ is not a point guard.
When you see Garrett flying down the floor and dishing great passed, making drives to the hoop
and getting his shot off, or the form on his 3 pointer, you know exactly
what Dan sees.
Dan is waiting for the right time to hand him the keys. Know that for a fact.

You don't have to say it slow, I get it, has been said by you, BAR, Rambone and Billy and some others many times since before the season started and after - nothing new.
TJ may not be a PG to many on this Board but I'd rather have him in the game than Minnis. I'd say the best 10 passes on the entire team I have seen this year at least 6 of them have been by TJ. He is the best passer on the team through the first 9 games.
TJ is ranked 9th in the Atlantic 10 in Assists per Game with 3.2
He is ranked 3rd in the Conference in the all important Assists to Turnover Ratio with 3.2 including 29 assists and only 9 turnovers. The two guys above him are both from 1st place Davidson. In My opinion our strongest team is with TJ in the starting 5.
In addition, TJ's leadership skills are second to none on this team.

I'd disagree that Garrett's current stats are meaningless as he has received a significant amount of playing time. His FT and 3 Point percentages may be part of what is keeping him from getting the keys by now. I would be pretty sure if he was shooting 75% FT and 35% on three pointers he would have the keys by now, plus maybe have a higher Assist to Turnover ratio.
I'd like to see Dan just give Garrett the keys and move on. I also would like to know what Garrett shot percentage wise in HS with 3 pointers and with FT's if anyone has those.
That said, I'll be surprised if Garrett is not the starting PG by Saturday January 3rd, but I love TJ in the starting line up.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 9 years ago

But if TJ's our starting point guard, who's our backup power forward?

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

On a more serious note, who would our defensive stopper be?
There's only so much you can ask TJ to do.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 9 years ago

I plead guilty on the Ledo posts. I was insanely mad we didn't get him. Then PC did. And he never played a minute. Wasted my time and other people's.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 9 years ago

Where's Gandy?

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

I am VERY confident Jarvis will improve his 3 pt. and FT shooting over time.

With his confidence on the floor apparently rising, I think we'll see it sooner rather than later.

Ramster, I think Rod has said he was a good overall shooter in HS and prep. Don't have any numbers though.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 9 years ago

Ramblinrose wrote:Where's Gandy?

At the Dunk?

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 9 years ago

if TJ starts at point guard who is the back up power forward!

Haha I hope we keep taking care of crap teams, it is a breath of fresh air. Granted right now we are 1/4 against ok to good teams.

I would prefer to not see TJ run the pf again. It would be nice of the front court to show up.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Well, Jarvis did score 24.6 ppg on a loaded ND Prep team.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 9 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Well, Jarvis did score 24.6 ppg on a loaded ND Prep team.

I think I remember reading that also included a couple of 50 point games.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

Yeah, you don't score 24+ a game without being able to shoot it a little.

I doubt it was all drives and layups.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 9 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:Yeah, you don't score 24+ a game without being able to shoot it a little.

I doubt it was all drives and layups.

This is an old article about the prep showcase early in his senior year at ND. He hit 5 threes in the games.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketb ... ises-stock

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 9 years ago

I saw a game from RIC and Jarvis lit it up from 3. He can shoot. No doubt. Just got to get the doubt out of his own head. And my new thing is every time Butler is in I yell for him to take the 3. He needs his confidence too because that kid can shoot as well. Mind games are affecting this young talented team.

The Dude · Unread post by **The Dude** » 9 years ago

ramster wrote:
rodfromcranston wrote:OK, let me say this again, maybe reallllly slow, and maybe it'll finally sink in.
Jarvis Garrett is the future PG of URI basketball, current stats or not. Those mean squat.
Dan loves what he brings to the game, and sees what he will mean to the program.
TJ is not a point guard.
When you see Garrett flying down the floor and dishing great passed, making drives to the hoop
and getting his shot off, or the form on his 3 pointer, you know exactly
what Dan sees.
Dan is waiting for the right time to hand him the keys. Know that for a fact.
You don't have to say it slow, I get it, has been said by you, BAR, Rambone and Billy and some others many times since before the season started and after - nothing new.
TJ may not be a PG to many on this Board but I'd rather have him in the game than Minnis. I'd say the best 10 passes on the entire team I have seen this year at least 6 of them have been by TJ. He is the best passer on the team through the first 9 games.
TJ is ranked 9th in the Atlantic 10 in Assists per Game with 3.2
He is ranked 3rd in the Conference in the all important Assists to Turnover Ratio with 3.2 including 29 assists and only 9 turnovers. The two guys above him are both from 1st place Davidson. In My opinion our strongest team is with TJ in the starting 5.
In addition, TJ's leadership skills are second to none on this team.

I'd disagree that Garrett's current stats are meaningless as he has received a significant amount of playing time. His FT and 3 Point percentages may be part of what is keeping him from getting the keys by now. I would be pretty sure if he was shooting 75% FT and 35% on three pointers he would have the keys by now, plus maybe have a higher Assist to Turnover ratio.
I'd like to see Dan just give Garrett the keys and move on. I also would like to know what Garrett shot percentage wise in HS with 3 pointers and with FT's if anyone has those.
That said, I'll be surprised if Garrett is not the starting PG by Saturday January 3rd, but I love TJ in the starting line up.

Completely agree! Ramster you've been on point lately with your breakdowns and statistical analysis. Good stuff! You're saving me a lot of typing...haha.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

We'll go as far as JG takes us. He's the key.

If he's the next Jiggy or Silk, we'll be Dancing by next season. Well with another big man anyway

Running Ram · Unread post by **Running Ram** » 9 years ago

Ramster I agree with your assessment of TJ as our undoubted leader, he's steady and always ready! And I have also been very impressed with his court vision this year.

I believe he would make a good starting point guard, but I firmly believe his value is higher as he is being currently deployed (maybe with the exception of the PF minutes) than his value would be at starting PG. We have another capable PG in Minnis and an emerging star at PG in Garrett, neither of them have the versatility TJ has. I'm sure TJ is a guy that is doing everything Dan planned he would so far this season. It's something I won't question Hurley about because TJ seems to always be where we need him to be when it's most important.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

RR, agree with all you said except Minnis being a capable PG.

He is that when we play stiffs, he disappears when the going gets tougher against better opponents.

We need someone who will step UP when the competition improves. That's Garrett soon.

TJ has been everything he's been asked to be. We will need him badly against VCU, a steady hand when all hell breaks loose with Havoc. He and JG, who I think will be more ready when we play them, should start that game together, with EC at the 3.

Good ball handling will be needed, and they are the best two we've got.

The Dude · Unread post by **The Dude** » 9 years ago

Agree with you Rambone.
Personally, I've never thought Biggie was a good point guard. Good players show up in big games. Anyone can have great stats against weak opponents.
I really think TJ continues to be under appreciated in some respects simply because he doesn't score a bunch of points each game. I'd argue that not turning the ball over, which can lead to points for the other team, in big games is equally important or more important than scoring themselves on a team that has a guys like E.C., Terell, Martin & Biruta.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 9 years ago

Historically missed FTs in key situations have killed us in big games ... Percy Davis v. Duke in 1978, Kenny Greenv. Duke in1988 and ... ugh ... Tyson Wheeler in 1998.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 9 years ago

So see, why worry about free throws, it only kills us in years ending in 8!

luke · Unread post by **luke** » 9 years ago

Gil will get it together. he played better as the season went along last year. I expect he will shoot 70% from the line the rest of the way. I am certain Mathews, Terrell and Garrett will all shoot better from the line the rest of the way too. I expect the team to shoot around 705 for the remainder of the season and in A10 play. I bet they have an above 70% ft shooting game tomrrow. If not, then i may be totally off base. Look for Saturday to be a predicter of better shooting for the line and the floor.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 9 years ago

I'm confused by Gil's slow start this year. Last year he was nursing a sprained ankle at the beginning of the season and he was shaking off the rust from a year away from game action, so it makes sense that he got better as the year went on. Not sure why he's started slow this year.

The Dude · Unread post by **The Dude** » 9 years ago

I don't see how the team could possibly shoot any poorer from the foul line against Detroit as they did in the first half against Delaware State. Team was 8 for 19 (42%) in the first half of that game. Watson going 4 for 4 was the team's saving grace in that statistical category. If he didn't have a horseshoe up his butt, the team would've been around 48% as a whole.
One would think they're bound to be better this Saturday. I'm not looking for any miracles. If this team can average over 65% from the free throw line on a consistent basis I'll be happy.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

I agree that EC, JT, Jarvis and Hassan will eventually shoot most of the free throws, and all show the form to hover in the 65-75 range.

In terms of the TJ conversation, I dont disagree with Ramster. I prefer TJ over Minnis if Dan isn't ready to insert Garrett yet. While TJ is not an ideal PG solution neither is Minnis - TJ is a better decision maker, defender and probably the best passer on the team. I think Jarvis is our starter for the Brown game.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

Rosie, maybe I'm off by a year, but didn't we also blow the 2008 NC NIT semis by going 2-6 from the line in the last 2 minutes?

Beware the year 2018.

The Dude · Unread post by **The Dude** » 9 years ago

Free throws were much better tonight as a whole...26 of 34 at 76%.

Ashcat · Unread post by **Ashcat** » 9 years ago

It isn’t rocket science. 76% free throw shooting equaling 26 points is exactly the way you gain separation on the Detroit’s of the world. Keep hitting 75% from the line and the wins will follow don’t and those niggardly 5+/- point losses that eliminate us from contention will continue. Let’s face it was shooting free throws at the 80% mark coupled with Cotton is what got PC the NBE championship and a trip to the show last season.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

Ashcat wrote:It isn’t rocket science. 76% free throw shooting equaling 26 points is exactly the way you gain separation on the Detroit’s of the world. Keep hitting 75% from the line and the wins will follow don’t and those niggardly 5+/- point losses that eliminate us from contention will continue. Let’s face it was shooting free throws at the 80% mark coupled with Cotton is what got PC the NBE championship and a trip to the show last season.

I know etymology is benign, but there is no reason to break out the $1M words that might make some people uncomfortable. Can we just use a different word next time?

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 9 years ago

Since I harped on the bad free throw shooting performances, I will give them their due for this game. 76% is excellent. Would love to see them closer to this number in future games than what we saw against PC and Delaware State.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Niggardly means frugal. It's not a racial term at all. Let's stop the PC bullshit, please.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 9 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Niggardly means frugal. It's not a racial term at all. Let's stop the PC bullshit, please.

It's always that…...

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Niggardly means frugal. It's not a racial term at all. Let's stop the PC bullshit, please.

Like I said, I know the etymology is benign. But maybe not everyone that reads the board has that vocabulary. Considering what it sounds like, I don't think it is necessary. There is nothing PC about it, since there actually nothing remotely offensive about it, I just don't want there to be any misunderstandings. I made a respectful request.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 9 years ago

It was a joke, a play on words about PC……as in Providence College.

Also, what's wrong with a 2023 recruit???????? Wasn't PC enough?????????? Yet another example of people taking themselves too seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 9 years ago

From Koch's game story:

More friendly foul line
URI followed up two of its worst foul-shooting performances of the season against Providence and Delaware State with one of its best, finishing 26-for-34 at the stripe against Detroit. The 76.5 percent the Rams shot while taking down the Titans sits behind only a 14-for-18 performance (77.8 percent) in a loss against Georgia Tech at the Orlando Classic. “It’s contagious, like turning the ball over, like bad defense, like not blocking out,” Hurley said. “It’s contagious. It’s incredibly mental. It’s a mental thing. It’s not an effort thing. It’s not a lack of practice thing.”

The Rams entered Saturday at 60.9 percent as a team, tied with USC and Chicago State for 330th out of 351 Division I teams. It’s a stark contrast to Hurley’s two Wagner teams, which shot 77.2 percent and 74.3 percent in 2010-11 and 2011-12, respectively.

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 9 years ago

TruePoint wrote:
rodfromcranston wrote:Niggardly means frugal. It's not a racial term at all. Let's stop the PC bullshit, please.
Like I said, I know the etymology is benign. But maybe not everyone that reads the board has that vocabulary. Considering what it sounds like, I don't think it is necessary. There is nothing PC about it, since there actually nothing remotely offensive about it, I just don't want there to be any misunderstandings. I made a respectful request.

Well seeing as this is a college basketball forum, they should either know the vocabulary or understand how to use a dictionary. For anyone who does not know either, go to College.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

It is an uncommon enough word that its use here is needlessly provocative.

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