Jordan Hare

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:So kids with lousy attitudes, bad grades, and lazy work habits, should
have their scholarships honored? Not realistic. Sorry.
It's a two way street. As Hurley said,
"We treat scholarships like gold!"

No Rod, as I have qualified in nearly every post I have made on this point, a kid that gets arrested, has grade issues, is insubordinate or even lazy shouldn't keep his scholarship as if it is his birth right. We are only talking about kids who hold up their end of the bargain in the program and in the classroom. If the kid upholds his obligations and does everything you ask of him, you shouldn't take away his scholarship just because he isn't as talented as you thought he was when you recruited him. That is all I'm saying, and I've been saying it since my first post on the topic so I didn't realize I had to keep repeating it.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 11 years ago

TP: You tend to always think that your opinion is "right" and others are wrong.
And I'd appreciate it if you don't question my ethics and morals.
I don't think Baron threw Holm away like garbage. I think he gave the kid an honest assessment: you're not going to play here, you should go somewhere that you'll play.
Kind of like the real world.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

Iggy, I don't always think my opinion is right and others are wrong. In this case, I do. There is a difference between being honest and telling a kid he won't play and straight up taking away his scholarship. I think that giving a kid information that might lead to him transferring is the right thing to do. To make the decision for him is not.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 11 years ago

When did Chris Holm become Jack Sikma? People rallied around him because he ripped Baron after he left. Truth is that Holm was maybe marginally better than Jon Clark. He ended up at Vermont and that is about the level he belonged.
Stevie Mejia was also worshiped in the same manner, when he couldn't cover a desk chair. He also found a more appropriate program. I see no need to chase Hare from the team. We don't get a lot of skilled guys his height, and I think he is worth the investment. It may take longer than we like.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

"Skilled". In what way?

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

I think Hare is definitely physically gifted. He does have work to do on his basketball skills and his physique, though.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

As I have mentioned before, Hare was originally a Baron recruit.

A typical Baron recruit. Athletic, but lacking in basketball skills.

Not really Hurley's kind of player. We'll see how much he develops going forward.

With his size, he's got a chance to contribute, if he works at it.

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 11 years ago

I don't understand the harsh assesment of Jordan. He was a freshman thrust into a starting role and what? He wasn't a one and done 5 star recruit. Give the kid a break. When we have a program, freshman like Jordan will see about 15 minutes a game as a freshman. Kids will grow into starting roles if they need to. If they prove they are ready they will start. So maybe lighten up based on last year and judge based on next year. It's gonna be a whole different ballgame.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

I agree blueram. It's embarrassing, actually. Board full of talent evaluation experts we have here that can project the ceiling of a raw 18 year old that was overexposed because he was on a bad team.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

I guess we should all bow to your expertise and not have an opinion on
a discussion board.
He was advertised as a top 100 recruit. More was expected.
Top 100 recruits are supposed to be impact players, especially on a lousy team,
with no competition in front of him.
End of story.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

Kind of my point that he was a top 100 recruit. Major upside, and patience is in order. That is my opinion. I haven't said that he is going to be an all American, just that its far too early to know what you have. If he was as finished as some of you guys seemed to have expected, he would have been starting for Michigan State last year and not at URI.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but our opinions are subject to critique. That is part of the discussion, too.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

freshman like Jordan will see about 15 minutes a game as a freshman

This is not meant to bash Jordan, but he did only play 19.6 min a game, with Brooks and Aaman as the only other big men on the roster. So you can come to a couple of conclusions based on this; one is he was not thrust into playing a ton of minutes even though they were there for he taking; he was rotated in and put in spots where they thought he could be successful, and that is how it should be done. Or he just was not as ready as people had expected. Time will tell...

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

I agree with blueram overall, but I think the 15 minutes thing was possibly a misstatement. If last year's team was good, Jordan would have seen spot minutes in case of foul trouble or in blowouts. He would have mostly been learning behind the scenes.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

The one thing that concerns me about Hare are his hands.

That's a hard thing to teach. Either you have good hands, or you don't. That's something that should be evident by the high school level.

I think Jordan will become a good defensive player and a good rebounder once he develops physically. As for offense, however...

At least he's not going to be counted on to be a big scorer anyway.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 11 years ago

I was disappointed and my expectations were too high. He was more green than I had anticipated. If he can play some D and rebound, others may be able to pick up the scoring. Even the best URI teams seldom had star centers. Irv Chatman couldn't catch the ball. Bonzie Colson had limited offensive skills. Those teams relied on offense from other areas.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

The best center URI ever had was Art Stephenson, and he was about 6' 4" on a good day. Built like a truck though.

The nice thing about this team is that Hare won't need to score much. Leave that up to the Big O and Biruta. But it would be nice if he could somehow develop some shooting ability inside 10 feet. Not just dunks and putbacks either.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

Rambone, I'm not saying you're going to be wrong, but how much have you seen of Ifeani to know that he will be a dependable scoring option as a freshman? I know what has been said about him, but it seems like you would have said something similar about Hare at this time last year. Part of the problem with Hare is that people had expectations about him that weren't based on seeing him play (at least at this level), but on what we wanted him to be. They turned out to be unrealistic, and I'd hate to see the same thing happen to Ifeani. Obviously, it appears that he will at least be more physically ready than Hare was, but we have to remember that college freshmen are barely in their basketball adolescence.

eli#10 · Unread post by **eli#10** » 11 years ago

Will you guys please find something else to talk about. As mentioned earlier Larry Sanders averaged 5 points and 5 rebounds his freshman year. He didn't turn out too bad!
Leave Hare alone--he will be very helpful to our team as he gets older and better.

reef · Unread post by **reef** » 11 years ago

I am still optimistic regarding Hare, I like the upside

rhodylaw · Unread post by **rhodylaw** » 11 years ago

I thought he showed some potential shot blocking ability - and he could run the break.

I also saw glimpses a couple of times where he was trying to make some moves to the hoop (as if they had been working on it in practice). I think he will do well with some other big bodies around him that know what they are doing. I love aamans grit but that was not a good front court last year with brooks and there was zero depth if anyone got in foul trouble. I expect to see a lot of growth from Jordan - in a good front court rotation he should be able to disrupt a lot of shots with his length and athleticism and I see him as a Tyson chandler type player

RhodyO · Unread post by **RhodyO** » 11 years ago

I can't believe that anyone could be upset with the ability he has shown on the court. We have seen the likes of Will Martell and Brooks counting as our "Big Men." It is nice to see someone who can actually catch the ball for once and has the ability to rebound. I still think Hare is going to be really good. Kid is a freshman and has a lot more ability than Martell or Brooks EVER HAD .... both of whom btw should have had a designated seat at the end of the bench where they grew dust on their shoulders.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Wait, he can catch the ball? Which player were you watching all year?
The worst thing was him bobbling every ball he got thrown to him, and
handling it like a hot potato and flinging it in the general direction of the basket.
Comparing him to Martell and Brooks is setting the bar pretty low.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

When your mind is cluttered with thoughts about where you're supposed to be on the floor, what you're going to do when you get the ball, etc., sometimes your concentration suffers and simple things like catching the ball become more difficult. It is cliche, but it is difficult to play the game and think the game at the same time, and it comes faster for some guys than others. If you don't have it as an 18 year old, it doesn't mean you'll never get it. I really think patience are in order.

RhodyO · Unread post by **RhodyO** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote: Comparing him to Martell and Brooks is setting the bar pretty low.

Exactly my point. How can you crucify a kid who is a freshman when we haven't had ANYONE close to his ability since the likes of Seawright. Every, single, big man we have had has been terrible. Also, he had some fumbling problems but nothing close to Brooks who they brought in to relieve him. This whole debate is outrageous since having him on the court, hands down, makes the team better over a player that can't rebound, score, or play defense, that we have seen stroll into Kingston over the past 2-3 years.

Rhodymob05 · Unread post by **Rhodymob05** » 11 years ago

RhodyO wrote:
rodfromcranston wrote: Comparing him to Martell and Brooks is setting the bar pretty low.
Exactly my point. How can you crucify a kid who is a freshman when we haven't had ANYONE close to his ability since the likes of Seawright. Every, single, big man we have had has been terrible. Also, he had some fumbling problems but nothing close to Brooks who they brought in to relieve him. This whole debate is outrageous since having him on the court, hands down, makes the team better over a player that can't rebound, score, or play defense, that we have seen stroll into Kingston over the past 2-3 years.

AMEN!

gorhody89 · Unread post by **gorhody89** » 11 years ago

I think we were a little spoiled by Holton being as productive as he was as a freshmen just the year before. Granted I remember Holton throwing up brick after brick from 3 but he was also a dominant rebounder...

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Better look over at the recruiting part of this board, and see that Dan and Preston
are working hard to bring in 6'8" three star Alex Foster from Chicago.
They are also working on a 7'2" kid from Fairfield Prep.
Read the tea leaves.

3wisemen · Unread post by **3wisemen** » 11 years ago

Chukwu is a pipe dream, nothing more. URI is very late to the game on him. And Foster is a worthwhile roll of the dice with a spare scholarship. If they get him, great. But he'll still be a freshman and your expectations will still be ridiculously high just like they were with Hare.
The Rams aren't going to get every player they recruit, Rod. They're also not going to stop trying to add quality depth at every position. It doesn't mean they're looking to shove Hare or anybody else out.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

There's plenty of guards they're recruiting too, good programs consistently recruit at all positions.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Foster can put the ball on the floor and drive, plus he can shoot to 15 feet.
Right there puts him ahead of Hare in skills. He's a far more complete player.
How is it rolling the dice on him? Tubby Smith didn't think so.
So, Dan and staff should think small, because they recruit against the big guys,
so it must be a pipe dream?
Wow!
BFC, ALL the guards they're recruiting, fit the same profile. All SG's with size.
It's no secret, they're looking for Munford's successor.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

Recruiting is stockpiling talent. They should be recruiting every position every year.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 11 years ago

Minor point, although I do think it has relevance to how much he can develop physically, but Hare played most of his freshman year at age 20. He'll turn 21 this November.

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 11 years ago

good kenny kadji was 25 for Miami

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 11 years ago

Good observation, Ace….And I'd rather have a woman in front of me at age …..oh, my apologies….

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 11 years ago

It's like some people on this thread have never seen a big get better over the course of four years. Brian Zoubek was a top 25 recruit and was a complete stiff for Duke for about 2.5 years. He made hare's hands look like Jerry Rice. By his senior year, he was an integral part of a title team. Kelly Olynyck was awful as a frosh. You don't have to score much to have a big impact on the game as an inside player, especially if you have scorers around you. If you want to write off a guy like Hare, have at it, but history is littered with bigs who basically drooled up and down the court as frosh but turned into important pieces on good teams. Hare was a top 100 guy not because he had kevin McHale post moves but because of his athleticism and ceiling.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 11 years ago

GBG: good post.
There's no guarantee he'll be great, but you gotta give him the chance to improve.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 11 years ago

agree with GBG, most freshman bigs outside the top 5 guys (who are all blue chip borderline NBA prospects) have little impact in their FR years. jordan had moments where you could see the potential, vs PC, Loyola MD, and call a spade a spade how many windmill dunks have we witnessed by a Ram in the history of the program (see St Mary's game)? dunks are the highest percentage shot in basketball, if all he does is catch lobs and block shots he can still be an effective part of the machine. i would definitely not give up on him.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 11 years ago

case in point, this guy's stats aren't all that much better than Jordan's and he is a physically developed Junior. And this guy has decided to enter the NBA draft (not likely he gets selected), but proof that development is slow with big men.

From Bleacher Report:

Before Dewayne Dedmon played his first college game two years ago, former USC coach Kevin O'Neill heaped lavish praise on the 7-footer.

"No question he's a first-round pick, no question," O'Neill said.

Soon O'Neill's bold prediction will apparently be put to the test. In a decision that's as puzzling as it is unexpected, Dedmon announced Wednesday afternoon he is leaving USC and entering the NBA draft even though he averaged a mere 6.7 points and 7.0 rebounds as a junior last season.

"It's just my time to chase my dream and go to the NBA," Dedmon said in a statement. "I had a great time at USC and it was a good experience. I had some ups and downs and learned a lot and believe it is best for me to turn professional at this time. I wish USC, Andy Enfield and all my teammates all the best moving forward."

Dedmon's decision is a surprise simply because his production doesn't seem to suggest he is NBA-ready. He has the size, speed and athleticism NBA scouts covet and he blocks shots at a high level, but he is extremely raw in all other facets of the game, from low-post scoring, to mid-range shooting, to defensive positioning.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

So, Dedmon still stinks, but is dumb enough to think he's NBA material.
And the point is?

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 11 years ago

i think "stinks" may be a bit extreme. Rod, you realize dominant 7 footers dont play more than a year of college ball, then there is everyone else? if that means everyone else stinks than so be it, but i disagree. i think there are plenty of effective big men who took some time to develop.

3wisemen · Unread post by **3wisemen** » 11 years ago

Rod, tell us what you thought of Andre Drummond during his one season at UConn. Was he NBA-ready after 10.0 points, 7.6 rebounds, 2.7 blocks, 53.8 percent shooting and 29.5 percent free throw shooting? The scouts thought he was -- he went No. 9 overall.
The fact is, Rod, you have an incredibly closed viewpoint on all of this. Jordan Hare will always be a bum in your mind, and so will any player who isn't the finished product the minute he steps on campus. Coaching staffs recruit these guys for four years, not one.
Now, judging by your latest posts, you're ready to jump on the Paschal Chukwu train. Did you ever think for a second about how teams are going to bully him in the lane? Hare played his freshman year at 6-10, 190 pounds. Chukwu is listed at 7-2, 220 pounds. Did you watch Hare get pushed around for 29 games last year? No matter where Chukwu ends up, get ready for a replay. The fact is, freshman are rarely -- RARELY -- difference makers at this level, especially in the front court.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

You could find dozens of 6'8" guys who had better stats than Dedmon.
So, he's 7 feet tall.
I'd rather have a 15-8 guy who is 6'8".
Just because someone is 7" tall doesn't anoint him as special.
Case in point, Hakeen Thebeet.
People like Wiseman can drool over height, but in the end, if there's
little to no skill, what does it matter.
Andre Drummond is a physical specimen at 6'11" 275 lbs. Get real.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

Rod, you don't have to score a ton of points to be a good center. In basketball, just being tall can be a usable skill. But it's funny that you use Thabeet as an example. Yes, in the NBA he is worthless, but at UConn he averaged 6ppg/4rbs as a freshman, then 10.5/8, then 14/11 and led UConn to the Final Four. I'm not saying Hare is definitely going to average 14/11 and lead us to the Final Four, but his freshmen stats are similar to Thabeet's (5/4).

It seems obvious that this conversation is pointless. It is like arguing with conspiracy theorists. No matter how much sense you make or how logically sound your points are, you cannot persuade people who are determined to disagree. I don't understand Rod and some others' issue with Hare. The kid has more upside and physical ability than any big man we've had in 15 years. But it is pointless arguing about it. We'll just have to see what happens.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

15 years are Jerry D and Baron, neither of whom recruited a legitimate
center.
So, comparing Hare to nothing is also pointless.
I'm betting when all is said and done, Onyekaba will have a far better
career at URI than Jordan Hare.
But Onyekaba isn't 6'10", so he can't be any good, right?
This is college basketball, where you can win without 7 footers.
Who were Louisville and Michigan's 7 footers this year?

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 11 years ago

Dieng and McGarry weren't 6'8" Rod....closer to 7 footers than undersized centers. Yes you can be highly effective especially at the A10 level at 6'8", Biruta will prove that this year. But you don't give up on a guy that is close to 7 feet, and can elevate above everyone else we play against. If you don't agree so be it.

Keaney.Blue · Unread post by **Keaney.Blue** » 11 years ago

TruePoint wrote:The kid has more upside and physical ability than any big man we've had in 15 years.

I disagree with this statement, just in recent memory Orion Outerbridge had more potential as a young player than Jordan. They're the same height and Orion had far more natural ability. Keep in mind he was being recruited by Kansas until he broke his ankle as a junior.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

Um, what? I'd take Jordan Hare in a second on my team. You can't teach athleticism, I'm sorry. If the kid is willing to work hard, he can develop into a dominant player his junior and senior years. So many of these "bigs" are works in progress, even the top big men. You might get one Anthony Davis or Nerlens Noel a year, and everyone else is a few notches below. This year it was Steven Adams from Pitt (7 points/6 rebounds) and Kaleb T from Arizona (6 points/6 rebounds). Both were Top 10 recruits, both with very modest stats. Adams is going to the NBA were he will be a first round pick, and I believe Kaleb is staying at 'Zona for his sophomore year. Heck, go up the highway to Kadeem Batts. Averaged 6 points and 5 rebounds through his first 3 years at PC (one was a redshirt year). Last year he went off for 15 and 7. Same story for thousands of big men throughout the country.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 11 years ago

Well, now we are conflating good for college and good for the NBA. Thabeet was a very good college basketball player and junior year Thabeet would be the best player on the URI roster right now. National Defensive player of the year. Big East POY. All-American. Just because he is an NBA bust doesn't mean he wasn't a very valuable college player. NBA teams don't draft college stats. They draft potential. Hell, look at Jermaine O'Neal. Took him five years to get it together and now he's on his way towards 20 freaking NBA seasons. Another big man who developed slowly.
I agree that you can be 6'6" and be a better inside player than a seven footer but Hare's height and athleticism combo are tough to get. Let's face it, if Hare had a refined post game along with his height/athleticism he would not be going to Rhody. He would be playing for Kansas or Duke right now. Programs like Rhody have to make upside bets sometimes. With 13 scholarship guys, I have no problem with a few going to guys short on skills, especially big men who are notoriously late bloomers.

Unread post by **SGreenwell** » 11 years ago

Re: Dedmon, even if he's not an NBA-caliber player, with his size I imagine he at least is an attractive guy to European leagues. I do sometimes an overlooked fact in these discussions is player ages - He's already 23, and turns 24 in August. NBA teams are starting to catch on that it's not smart to draft 24/25-year-old guys, since by that point they're behind in the development curve. (Note: This refers to the modern NBA, not the 1980s and before, when guys would stay four years.) His draft stock probably isn't going to get any better with another year, so he might as well get on with making some money rather than risk another injury at school.

Bos8 · Unread post by **Bos8** » 11 years ago

Speaking of a true center, did anyone see this? He was a one time Rhody baseball commit.

Adam Zagoria: 6-10 Nolan Long of South Kent (Conn.) Has committed to Wagner and coach Bashir Mason

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