Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby TruePoint » 5 months ago

Going to need Price to be his best self tonight.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 5 months ago

Also can't wave at so many curveballs buried in the dirt
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby TruePoint » 5 months ago

Shouldn't be as big of an issue tonight hopefully
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 5 months ago

Yeah I mean I had 3 big frustrations ...

1) The hitting approach ... If I asked you the top 3 Sox hitters last night, who would you have? I'd have some combo of Hanley, Holt, and Benitendi, and that right there is a problem. I know it's picking and choosing, but if you take Holt and Hanley out of the top 7, Pedroia, Betts, Ortiz, Bogaerts, and JBJ went 2-20 with 11 K's. If the bottom of your lineup (Leon/Benitendi) give you 3-8 with 2 HR's, I think normally you'd be feeling pretty good considering you have "the best lineup in baseball."

2) Porcello - You've got to be kidding me. He hadn't given up more than 3 runs in a start dating back to July 24th (13 starts). Obviously there is a shorter leash in the postseason, but damn, that 3rd inning was a horror show, bad pitch after bad pitch after bad pitch. There's that mirage of having a guy without that pedigree magically turn into an "ace" overnight.

3) Farrell trying to match wits with Francona ... Francona pulls Bauer for his lefty Andrew Miller, who struggled more than expected but ultimately after a rocky 5th shoved the bats right down the Sox throats. Farrell in the bottom of the inning goes to his lefty ... Drew Pomeranz ... who immediately lets the inherited runner to score and would have allowed a 2nd runner had he been playing at basically any other park. Ultimately Pomeranz settled down against the bottom of the Indians order, but was the situation too high leverage for a guy who hasn't pitched out of the bullpen except one no leverage outing and has never had any postseason experience?
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby TruePoint » 5 months ago

I didn't understand pulling Porcello at all, but even if you said after the third inning that you're going to the bullpen at the next hint of trouble, the move there would have been Koji. That would be the Red Sox version of bringing Miller into the game - its your most trusted reliever in a situation you've identified as significant by going to the bullpen in the first place. I can't blame the game last night on Farrell but he certainly doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 5 months ago

I think the only downside to what Francona did, is that he basically wasted his two best relievers for today, barring maybe 1-2 batters. If you look at outings where those guys threw 25 plus pitches, did they throw the next day?

Miller:
May 6th against Boston, throws 36 pitches, throws next on May 10th
May 10th against KC, throws 25 pitches, throws next on May 12th
June 4th against Baltimore, throws 28 pitches, throws next on June 6th
July 3rd against San Diego, throws 26 pitches, throws next on July 7th
July 9th against Cleveland, throws 35 pitches, throws next on July 17th
July 22nd against San Franciso, throws 32 pitches, throws next on July 23rd (10 pitches)
September 17th against Detroit, throws 35 pitches, throws next on September 20th
October 6th against Boston, throws 40 pitches, throws next on ________.

Allen:
April 21st against Seattle, throws 30 pitches, throws next on April 22nd (11 pitches)
April 27th against Minnesota, throws 26 pitches, throws next on April 29th
May 11th against Houston, throws 29 pitches, throws next on May 13th
May 18th against Cincinnati, throws 26 pitches, throws next on May 20th
June 9th against Seattle, throws 26 pitches, throws next on June 15th
July 9th against New York, throws 28 pitches, throws next on July 15th
August 17th against Chicago, throws 25 pitches, throws next on August 21st
August 21st against Toronto, throws 30 pitches, throws next on August 26th
August 29th against Minnesota, throws 37 pitches, throws next on September 2nd
October 6th against Boston, throws 40 pitches, throws next on _______.

Lucky for Cleveland, they have a pretty good bullpen, especially if they can get the lead, maybe they can just spot these guys for a batter or two and if Kluber can go deep, minimize the impact.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby SGreenwell » 5 months ago

I understand the concern about Francona's aggressiveness with the bullpen, but I kind of liked it, as long he was confident it wasn't going to do more harm to the guys than just making them unavailable for today. He had a chance to use them Thursday night for maximum leverage, and he took it. He might need them today, but he definitely needed them last night, so he pulled the trigger. A slew of things could happen today that could make the bullpens irrelevant, so you might as well go for the maximum leverage situation.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby twisted3829 » 5 months ago

go jays go
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby ATPTourFan » 5 months ago

Sox must win today (how's that for analysis!?). Hopefully the Indians wasted bullpen is an issue and the Sox just mash tons of runs.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 5 months ago

Did he really have to SG? He pulled Bauer before 80 pitches, none on and two outs. Holt was coming up, having a good first few games but not exactly dynamic.

I feel if there was a game you burn them, it's a game 2 with the off day in between. If neither can give you quality innings today and you lose with your B relievers (still good but not great), the over-aggressiveness might have cost a chance to go to Boston up 2.

That's not to say don't be afraid to make the move, I just thought the move for Miller was a little premature and led to Allen having to go 40 pitches as well.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby TruePoint » 5 months ago

Betts, Boegarts and Bradley are killing the Red Sox. If those guys don't do anything the Red Sox cannot advance.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 5 months ago

Hot of the presses - Sox starting pitches were a 2nd half mirage --- who woulda thunk it?
Porcello ... bashed
Price... being bashed
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rambone 78 » 5 months ago

Deep hole down 2......with Bucholtz starting game 3, be nervous Sox fans......be very nervous.....

They get the good Bucholtz, they stay alive, the bad Bucholtz, they're toast like Trump.......

I think most people figured the Sox were the better team going in...well the better team doesn't always win, especially quick best-of-five series......
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby ramfan85 » 5 months ago

No hitting and bad pitching is a bad combination if you're trying to win. (Socrates)
What's worse is that they probably won't be able to go golfing in Florida.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rambone 78 » 5 months ago

I think a lot of people had the Sox in the WS already....you have to play the games...they could still get there, but have to do a 180 in a hurry......

Price? Well, the price was wrong......
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby ramster » 5 months ago

Shouldn't be a surprise

9 series he has started - 9 times his team has lost with his record 0-8
Who ever said you get what you pay for - $217,000,000

I was afraid of this happening the way he got rocked by the Yankees last month giving up 11 runs in two starts
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rambone 78 » 5 months ago

Price is good enough to help get you to the postseason...

Once there, he needs to watch from the bullpen or dugout......

He was never clutch.....I was glad the Yankees never had an interest in him.....

The Red Sox have found that out now.....
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby ramster » 5 months ago

Yeah right, blah, blah, blah from price....
Mr October - not
http://www.providencejournal.com/sports ... son-record
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby ramster » 5 months ago

Boston Globe today.....brutal
Farrell could be out soon.......the only good thing about this potential implosion. Must win Sunday.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redso ... story.html
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 5 months ago

I'm not a big Farrell guy but it's hard to fault a man when both his "aces" give up 5 ER in less than 5 innings and his offense (especially key hitters) have consistently struggled with Situational hitting and leaving runners on.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby adam914 » 5 months ago

I wouldn't count the Sox out just yet. Anything can happen once they get back to Fenway. I would say its more likely it goes 5 games right now then that they get swept in 3, if not for Buchholz. And I'm no Sox fan.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rambone 78 » 5 months ago

Well, they are 6-0 in elimination games against Cleveland the last 2 playoff series against them, coming from 3-1 down in the ALCS and 2-0 in the ALDS.

I doubt they will repeat that magic. Sox fans like to think they will, but that's asking a lot.....
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby TruePoint » 5 months ago

rambone 78 wrote:I doubt they will repeat that magic. Sox fans like to think they will, but that's asking a lot.....


I'm sure you know different Sox fans than I do, but I think most Sox fans actually underrate their chances here. It isn't unthinkable that they could beat Cleveland twice in Fenway, then anything could happen. But I don't know many fans that think this series will still be a thing tomorrow. Everyone has given up.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 5 months ago

The advantage of the rain delay is that now the Sox can pitch Porcello in Game 4 and *gasp* Price in game 5, assuming they get there. It's interesting though, the Indians have already said Kluber would pitch game 5, whereas the Sox are TBD. It's possible they could go all out and use Price in a different role and not want to commit to the starter knowing they have to win to even get there.

I don't rule out a comeback, but the starting pitching needs to be decent. The Sox offense is awesome at Fenway and I would be shocked to see them shut down again. If they can jump out early and get a decent lead, it would neutralize some of that Cleveland bullpen. If it's a close game into the late innings, it's definitely advantage Cleveland.

But you can put me on that train, I believe in the Papi magic, and we've seen so many bigger comebacks from his teams -- 03 ALDS vs A's (down 0-2), 04 ALCS vs Yanks (down 3-0), 07 ALCS (down 3-1). Of course I believe in 05 and 09, the Sox were swept, lost game 3 at home in both occasions. But c'mon, it's the Papi farewell tour. Gotta believe.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby ramster » 5 months ago

As usual Farrell making moves that defy baseball logic
Has Aaron Hill hit for Brock Holt in the #2 spot. Holt is too good and too clutch to remove from the game
But to top that by an incredible margin he has Young hit for the guy who has made the best contact of any Sox player vs Cleveland in Benitendi!! And this when the horrendous Bradley is coming up who is 0-8 with 6 strike outs in the series. He lets Bradley hit!! I give up.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby ramster » 5 months ago

Shaw makes the last out of the season.
I Never would have taken Holt out of the game to have Hill bat for him.

What a horrendous last 3 weeks of a season.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 5 months ago

I don't have as big a problem with the individual moves as much as I wonder if he made them too early... but Brock Holt being too good? He hit something like .103 vs lefties and .255 for the year. My biggest complaint would have been letting Sandy Leon hit... I said it in July and again in August, that bubble burst hard, Leon was a K machine. And how beautiful was it, that guy they had to have, they had to sell off that top prospect for, not only could he not even take the ball to start a playoff game, but he gives up what is the game-deciding homer to Coco freakin Crisp. Gotta love that one.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby ramster » 5 months ago

rjsuperfly66 wrote:I don't have as big a problem with the individual moves as much as I wonder if he made them too early... but Brock Holt being too good? He hit something like .103 vs lefties and .255 for the year. My biggest complaint would have been letting Sandy Leon hit... I said it in July and again in August, that bubble burst hard, Leon was a K machine. And how beautiful was it, that guy they had to have, they had to sell off that top prospect for, not only could he not even take the ball to start a playoff game, but he gives up what is the game-deciding homer to Coco freakin Crisp. Gotta love that one.


How can you continually support this Manager and then me makes Pommeranz his number 1 guy to come in Game 1 for Porcello and then his number 1 guy for Bucholz? Either Farrell overrated Pommeranz or his bull pen options folded like a cheap suit or a combo of both.
But taking Benitendi out of this most important was pure dumb. Agree that Young could have hit for Leon or for Bradley, take your pick, but for Benitendi? Farrell said he wanted Young in sooner because Franconia might take his pitcher out soon. Overthinking, over managing.

I would never pinch hit for Brock Holt with Hill. If Holt is so bad then Farrell should not have had him batting in the all important #2 spot. Then it comes down to do you want Holt or Shaw at the plate for the last out of the season. Farrell left Shaw at 3rd for way too long during the season. The only thing that surprised me on the last out with Shaw was that he made contact on a weak fly to right - I expected a strike out.

The bright spot of the pitching was Joe Kelly. He was hitting 99 and 100 mph last night. Pitched well in 2 games.

I'll be very surprised if Farrell is not gone within days.

How to go from the hottest team in baseball to the coldest team in baseball in one month - what a shame.

Lot of criticism too of the Red Sox organization doing a 3 game retirement celebration for Ortiz in the Boston papers too that even Ortiz commented got tiring.

This team lost its focus, confidence and mission in record time.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 5 months ago

Well Pomeranz pitching last night was different than Game 1 -- the other night he came in for a high pressure situation with a guy on second, last night he started the 5h inning clean. Farrell needed a guy there to try to give him 4-6 outs, I don't think Pomeranz was a bad choice, no? If he can't pitch there, what good is he? There was no need for him with the bases empty, to employ a big arm. And even in the 6th when he gave up the HR, he had looked good to that point.

So just because a guy is hitting second, you shouldn't pinch hit for him? I think he was hitting 2nd because Farrell loves that left/right, and he at least was giving them a little something against righties. Again, he was .105 against lefties this season - 4/38. How does a manager predict in the 6th inning the guy he pulls is going to get 2 more at bats after that one? He got a hit out of Shaw, so I wouldn't call it a total loss.

Plus to me, what has the Sox done since the 5th inning of Game 1 when he starts making those aggressive moves in the 6th? 18 innings (so 2 games) - 2 runs, 8 hits, 18 strikeouts. So yes, I'm glad he started to make some waves, because the offense at least looked better, even though they couldn't break open a big inning. He got caught at the end, because none of his big hitters could tie it up, and that left Travis Shaw the chance to extend it, but they had the opportunities.

6th - Ortiz and Hanley can only get 1 across with men on 2nd and 3rd
7th - Leon and Bradley strand Young
8th - Boegarts strands Hernandez and Ramirez
9th - Shaw strands Bradley and Pedroia

So I'm ultimately somewhat ok with Farrell making tough lefty/righty moves to show a sense of urgency, his team at least started to respond. I was more upset with him not pinchrunning for Ortiz when he was on first, since if for some reason Hanley hit the ball into a gap, there was no ony that tying run would have scored. Cleveland was in the prevent, but stranger things have happened.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rambone 78 » 5 months ago

Now the Sox know how the Yanks feel...lack of clutch hitting in close games has hurt them all year....nothing changed in the playoffs.....

Sox will feel the loss of Ortiz big time next year, although I still expect them to contend for the division title again....the Yanks will if they can shore up their starting pitching and bullpen.....

Who signs Encarnacion will be big too.....
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 5 months ago

rambone 78 wrote:
Sox will feel the loss of Ortiz big time next year, although I still expect them to contend for the division title again....the Yanks will if they can shore up their starting pitching and bullpen.....

Who signs Encarnacion will be big too.....


I think it depends on several variables ... The Sox are still loaded with young kids and should still have a deep lineup. Where are the weaknesses? Outfield could arguably be better next year. There was a hole in LF most of the season. The platoon of Benitendi and Young really didn't get into effect until the last few weeks. Can JBJ be better? Mookie? How about the infield? Can Shaw or Sandoval provide a more stable 3rd? Can Xander improve? Is Pedroia Pedroia? Will Hanley continue where he left off? Where does Moncada fit in? Will his fall and spring find him better prepared for an MLB role? If you can put Moncada at 3rd, Shaw/Sandoval at 1st, and Hanley at DH, you could still have a pretty good hitting team. Obviously they wouldn't have the protection of Ortiz, but could be better on an individual level.

For that reason, I wouldn't throw big money at Edwin. I had this discussion last week with some friends, if you could get 1 year/2 year at 23 million per, ok, but there is no need to throw something stupid like 4 years/88 million at him. I don't see it. I'd rather seem them hold on to that, maybe try to patch their bench and pen with short-term contracts (even at a higher AAV), and save cash for next year's free agent pitching class, which include arms like Jake Arrieta, Yu Darvish, Danny Duffy (underrated season), Matt Moore, Chris Tillman, etc. Their bats next season should be ok without significant regression across the board, but you still have to worry about the rotation, problem is barring a big trade not much out there this offseason. Your rotation next season is what -- Porcello, Price, Pomeranz, Buchholz, and Rodriguez? Yeahhhhh..... :roll: :roll:
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby SGreenwell » 5 months ago

I think Moncada will need some more time in AAA, as his audition this year showed - 12 strikeouts in 19 at-bats. Half a year at Pawtucket, letting him season a tiny bit more, while you make do with a Shaw / Pablo / Hill / Generic Utility Guy platoon, seems reasonable to me.

If you can get Encarnacion on a short deal, and he doesn't cost draft pick compensation, then I'd say go for it. Otherwise, eh. He's pretty much a 1B/DH type, and I worry about the backside of the deal if it's 3+ years. Most guys don't just keep producing like David Ortiz as they age, and outside of him, the Sox haven't shown a special ability to get the most out of those players.

The 2017 free agent starting pitching crop is pretty bleak right now - http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/ ... g-pitcher/ - Of the guys who pitched 100+ innings in 2016, it goes Rich Hill (2.12 era, but blister and durability problems), Colon (3.43 era but a million years old), Jeremy Hellickson (3.71 era), Colby Lewis (3.71 era), then a bunch of guys with ERAs in the 4s. A bunch of stopgaps who will all be overpriced because they're the only free agent options.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 5 months ago

Agree on the 2017 class ... But I'd be ok with them bringing in someone like Hill on a 1 year, 15 million deal. Basically, Ortiz's money. Where else would they spend it? Team is relatively solidified outside of losing Ortiz' bat.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby ramster » 5 months ago

rjsuperfly66 wrote:Well Pomeranz pitching last night was different than Game 1 -- the other night he came in for a high pressure situation with a guy on second, last night he started the 5h inning clean. Farrell needed a guy there to try to give him 4-6 outs, I don't think Pomeranz was a bad choice, no? If he can't pitch there, what good is he? There was no need for him with the bases empty, to employ a big arm. And even in the 6th when he gave up the HR, he had looked good to that point.

So just because a guy is hitting second, you shouldn't pinch hit for him? I think he was hitting 2nd because Farrell loves that left/right, and he at least was giving them a little something against righties. Again, he was .105 against lefties this season - 4/38. How does a manager predict in the 6th inning the guy he pulls is going to get 2 more at bats after that one? He got a hit out of Shaw, so I wouldn't call it a total loss.

Plus to me, what has the Sox done since the 5th inning of Game 1 when he starts making those aggressive moves in the 6th? 18 innings (so 2 games) - 2 runs, 8 hits, 18 strikeouts. So yes, I'm glad he started to make some waves, because the offense at least looked better, even though they couldn't break open a big inning. He got caught at the end, because none of his big hitters could tie it up, and that left Travis Shaw the chance to extend it, but they had the opportunities.

6th - Ortiz and Hanley can only get 1 across with men on 2nd and 3rd
7th - Leon and Bradley strand Young
8th - Boegarts strands Hernandez and Ramirez
9th - Shaw strands Bradley and Pedroia

So I'm ultimately somewhat ok with Farrell making tough lefty/righty moves to show a sense of urgency, his team at least started to respond. I was more upset with him not pinchrunning for Ortiz when he was on first, since if for some reason Hanley hit the ball into a gap, there was no ony that tying run would have scored. Cleveland was in the prevent, but stranger things have happened.


lefty/righty to a point.

Hitting Young for Benintendi makes no sense to me, never will. Benintendi is one of the 4-5 guys that I would want up there in a clutch situation:
Leon - NO
Bradley - HELL NO
Shaw - HELL NO
HILL - NO.

If he wants a rightly in so bad then have Young hit for Holt. Have Young hit for Bradley.

But to take out Benintendi is beyond ridiculous to me.

Surprised how Eduardo Rodriguez saw no action. Pommeranz struck out 5 of the 7 outs he got in game one. Throwing mid 90's so maybe Farrell thought the Strike outs would repeat and maybe he and/or the Pitching Coach are seeing something good. What really hurt Pommeranz was the lead off walk in the inning - the Home Run gets the discussion but that walk on the 3-2 count with nobody on/ nobody out was a killer as the walk came back to haunt him and us.

Rodriguez was at least the 4 Starter, could argue he could have been ahead of Bucholtz, so it was a surprise to me that we never saw him and that Pommeranz came in instead for the second time.

Joe Kelly really stepped up.

Amazing too how many Sox pitchers who worked a lot this year so no action in the 3 games. Pitching confidence in several guys deteriorated in the last 3 weeks. Way too many walks by several pitchers.

I don't see Farrell surviving this.

Terry Francoma, Mike Napoli and Co-co made us look stupid, got their revenge and last laugh.

Our payroll is more than double Clevelands plus the Indians were missing their 2 best pitchers. there is a reason we were heavily favored.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rambone 78 » 5 months ago

The teams with the biggest payrolls are no guarantee to win these days.

The Yanks found that out, the Red Sox are too. The Dodgers? Same deal.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby SGreenwell » 5 months ago

rambone 78 wrote:The teams with the biggest payrolls are no guarantee to win these days.

The Yanks found that out, the Red Sox are too. The Dodgers? Same deal.

Yeah - The "best" team wins a playoff series about 60 percent of the time, IIRC. They survive the playoff gauntlet and win the World Series about 15 to 25 percent of the time, depending on how good they were in the regular season. You can perform better if you have sluggers, incredible starting pitching and a great bullpen, but ultimately it's usually coming down to a few breaks here and there in a 5 or 7-game series. (Examples I thought of last night - Couple more feet for the Sox and those are dingers over the wall, and not doubles.)
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 5 months ago

ramster wrote:Hitting Young for Benintendi makes no sense to me, never will. Benintendi is one of the 4-5 guys that I would want up there in a clutch situation:
Leon - NO
Bradley - HELL NO
Shaw - HELL NO
HILL - NO.

If he wants a rightly in so bad then have Young hit for Holt. Have Young hit for Bradley.

But to take out Benintendi is beyond ridiculous to me.



Why is it ridiculous? Like Holt, Benitendi is a lefty who struggles against lefties. Unlike Holt, Benitendi got destroyed by Andrew Miller in Game 1, striking out ugly on 3 pitches. Benitendi was 5-28 with 12 K's against lefties this season. Also, where do you get this fictious "Andrew Benitendi is clutch" thing from? With 1 out in an inning, he hit .152. With 2 outs in an inning, he hit .206. In innings 7-9 of the game, Benitendi hit .211. Can't find a metric to support it.

If you bat Young for Holt, then he's replaced by Hill for defense, and you get the L/L with Benitendi the next inning because there is no one to hit for him (and play the position). I agree the way Bradley was swinging, he could have pinch hit for him there, but there was no guarantee Miller would make it that far. If Chris Young doesn't walk, it's possible JBJ doesn't hit against Miller, and you aren't going to pull JBJ for a righty/righty matchup, especially when it's Chris Young hitting for him. As it turns out, JBJ had a huge hit to extend the game against Allen in the 9th.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby ramster » 5 months ago

rambone 78 wrote:The teams with the biggest payrolls are no guarantee to win these days.

The Yanks found that out, the Red Sox are too. The Dodgers? Same deal.


Then you have to consider that you don't always get what you pay for:
Pablo Sandoval - an amazing $95 million for 5 years. He will never play for the Red Sox as a starter. His contract was not insured by the Red Sox either
Rusney Castillo - an amazing $72.5 million. He will never play for the Red Sox and never play Major League Baseball

You can't make this stuff up

and there is David Price for $217 million is not even the best pitcher on the staff. Behind Porcello, probably behind Wright. 0-9 in Post Season Starts.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 5 months ago

ramster wrote:Surprised how Eduardo Rodriguez saw no action. Pommeranz struck out 5 of the 7 outs he got in game one. Throwing mid 90's so maybe Farrell thought the Strike outs would repeat and maybe he and/or the Pitching Coach are seeing something good. What really hurt Pommeranz was the lead off walk in the inning - the Home Run gets the discussion but that walk on the 3-2 count with nobody on/ nobody out was a killer as the walk came back to haunt him and us.

Rodriguez was at least the 4 Starter, could argue he could have been ahead of Bucholtz, so it was a surprise to me that we never saw him and that Pommeranz came in instead for the second time.

Joe Kelly really stepped up.

Amazing too how many Sox pitchers who worked a lot this year so no action in the 3 games. Pitching confidence in several guys deteriorated in the last 3 weeks. Way too many walks by several pitchers.

I don't see Farrell surviving this.

Terry Francoma, Mike Napoli and Co-co made us look stupid, got their revenge and last laugh.

Our payroll is more than double Clevelands plus the Indians were missing their 2 best pitchers. there is a reason we were heavily favored.


Wasn't Rodriguez scheduled to pitch today? If so he would have been unable to pitch in relief unless you really juggle the starting rotation.

And Dombrowski announced Farrell is coming back. Can't say I'm excited about that.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby STC » 5 months ago

SGreenwell wrote:
rambone 78 wrote:The teams with the biggest payrolls are no guarantee to win these days.

The Yanks found that out, the Red Sox are too. The Dodgers? Same deal.

Yeah - The "best" team wins a playoff series about 60 percent of the time, IIRC. They survive the playoff gauntlet and win the World Series about 15 to 25 percent of the time, depending on how good they were in the regular season. You can perform better if you have sluggers, incredible starting pitching and a great bullpen, but ultimately it's usually coming down to a few breaks here and there in a 5 or 7-game series. (Examples I thought of last night - Couple more feet for the Sox and those are dingers over the wall, and not doubles.)


Let's not forget revenue sharing which has done a great job leveling the playing field over the last 5-10 years. Ten years ago I wouldn't have said this but MLB has more parity these days than NFL and NBA.

Now if they could just make it a more appealing product to watch on tv with friends.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby rambone 78 » 5 months ago

There have been quite a few expensive busts, when it comes to the free agent market lately.

The more you play that game, the better chance that will happen.

How old is E. E.? 32? I wouldn't give him a 6 or 7 year deal that's for sure. Although if he's only a DH, there's less of a chance of him getting hurt.....

Of course, if he gets 81 games at Fenway the next couple of years, I could see him hitting 50 HR's per.....I don't think the Yankees are going after him, so it could happen.....
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby ramster » 5 months ago

RhowdyRam02 wrote:
ramster wrote:Surprised how Eduardo Rodriguez saw no action. Pommeranz struck out 5 of the 7 outs he got in game one. Throwing mid 90's so maybe Farrell thought the Strike outs would repeat and maybe he and/or the Pitching Coach are seeing something good. What really hurt Pommeranz was the lead off walk in the inning - the Home Run gets the discussion but that walk on the 3-2 count with nobody on/ nobody out was a killer as the walk came back to haunt him and us.

Rodriguez was at least the 4 Starter, could argue he could have been ahead of Bucholtz, so it was a surprise to me that we never saw him and that Pommeranz came in instead for the second time.

Joe Kelly really stepped up.

Amazing too how many Sox pitchers who worked a lot this year so no action in the 3 games. Pitching confidence in several guys deteriorated in the last 3 weeks. Way too many walks by several pitchers.

I don't see Farrell surviving this.

Terry Francoma, Mike Napoli and Co-co made us look stupid, got their revenge and last laugh.

Our payroll is more than double Clevelands plus the Indians were missing their 2 best pitchers. there is a reason we were heavily favored.


Wasn't Rodriguez scheduled to pitch today? If so he would have been unable to pitch in relief unless you really juggle the starting rotation.

And Dombrowski announced Farrell is coming back. Can't say I'm excited about that.


I thought with the rain delay that Porcello would have been able to go. But maybe you are right. Just odd that the #4 guy never gets to throw a pitch. The disadvantage of playing a 162 game regular season and then doing only a Best of 5 in the first round. I think should be best of 7 for all of the Playoffs - maybe shorten the regular season. But for the Red Sox I don't think a Best of 9 game series would have made a difference with Cleveland unfortunately.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby ramster » 5 months ago

Crap, you are right Rhowdy.....
My worst nightmare
Interesting that DD did not extend him to 2018 saying that had to go to upper management
If I'm Torey Lovullo I'm gone - great potential manager - many openings. No way he stays around now.

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports ... ll-in-2017
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby STC » 5 months ago

I think the Red Sox will be smart enough to let Edwin Encarnacion go by, at least I hope so. I'd go three years on EE but that's it. EE is classic older free agent about to get paid who has zero chance of living up to contract.

Would like to see the Sox try and sell high on Hanley this offseason. No way he comes close to repeating his 30/100 line from this season. I think Ortiz played a big role in keeping Hanley in check and focused.

A few minor moves and Sox will be right back in the mix next year.

I wouldn't say I'm disappointed by Dombrowski but thought he would have pulled a heist by now. Maybe this is the offseason he strikes? Certainly he has a lot of work to do to shake the rep that he can't build a bullpen.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby SGreenwell » 5 months ago

STC wrote:I think the Red Sox will be smart enough to let Edwin Encarnacion go by, at least I hope so. I'd go three years on EE but that's it. EE is classic older free agent about to get paid who has zero chance of living up to contract.

Would like to see the Sox try and sell high on Hanley this offseason. No way he comes close to repeating his 30/100 line from this season. I think Ortiz played a big role in keeping Hanley in check and focused.

A few minor moves and Sox will be right back in the mix next year.

I wouldn't say I'm disappointed by Dombrowski but thought he would have pulled a heist by now. Maybe this is the offseason he strikes? Certainly he has a lot of work to do to shake the rep that he can't build a bullpen.

I don't disagree that Hanley might turn into a pumpkin any year now, but 1) other teams probably realize this too and 2) I don't think there is a ready replacement on the farm for him, and I'm not sure a FA would be better.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby Ramulous » 5 months ago

The Red Sox are loaded with designated hitters.....I don't see a need for EE....I like him very much but I would look to upgrade over JBJ (offensively)...he faltered badly after Farrell moved him out of the 9th spot.....I know it is wrong but I am superstititious....Farrell screwed him by ruining the karma....like pitching closers in non-save situations...
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby ramster » 5 months ago

Hanley played a solid 1st base. He came up in the Red Dox organization originally s a short stop. No need to take him off girst especially if Travis Shaw is the option. Can't see Shaw in the starting line up next year. And Bradley has to improve or move Betts back to center field.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 5 months ago

You guys are under rating Bradley. Any improvement with the bat will cost you big in the field and center fielders tend to be poorer hitters than corner outfielders anyway.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread postby Shaolin Swat » 5 months ago

RhowdyRam02 wrote:You guys are under rating Bradley. Any improvement with the bat will cost you big in the field and center fielders tend to be poorer hitters than corner outfielders anyway.


Agree, he has so much value for them defensively and, when coupled with Mookie in right, makes for an incredible defensive outfield (at a place where it is extremely difficult to play the outfield). I think you live with his extremely streaky offense and hit him somewhere in the lineup (i.e. 9th) where he is going to see a ton of fastballs and not have pitchers pitch around him.
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