Red Sox and other Major League Baseball

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rjsuperfly66
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

I wish I was the uncle of the next Pedro :D
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

That's now what I asked. I asked if you were Andy's uncle... ;)
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

Chris Sale could be on the block and the Sox have reached out about him and others.
Unload what you have to load to get Sale to Boston.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

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Clay got Buch-hosed tonite....
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by ramster »

rjsuperfly66 wrote:Chris Sale could be on the block and the Sox have reached out about him and others.
Unload what you have to load to get Sale to Boston.
No thanks
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/17131 ... chris-sale
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

ramster wrote:
rjsuperfly66 wrote:Chris Sale could be on the block and the Sox have reached out about him and others.
Unload what you have to load to get Sale to Boston.
No thanks
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/17131 ... chris-sale
Red Sox throwbacks all look to be pretty cool, so minimal risk. It's about time someone railed against that floppy-collared pos anyway... I'm still in if they can get him here reasonable.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

So we are too good for Chris Sale because of his issues with White Sox management?

Sure, his response was childish, but his issues with management have been documented over the last few months.

His teammates love him, think it'd be different if he was a clubhouse cancer.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by Ramulous »

Watched Buchholz last night...wonder how different the outcome would have been if he had gotten that called third strike to end the inning...and then the hitter hits that catchable ball that gets muffed by the fielder and then another muff by Holt.....I didn't think he did poorly up til then...
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

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Ramulous wrote:Watched Buchholz last night...wonder how different the outcome would have been if he had gotten that called third strike to end the inning...and then the hitter hits that catchable ball that gets muffed by the fielder and then another muff by Holt.....I didn't think he did poorly up til then...
I agree that he didn't do poorly up until then...and he did get hosed. But dang....every once in a while, it would be nice for him to stare adversity in the face and sack up, instead of crapping himself.... Almost never happens, "and for that reason, I'm out" (on Clay Bucholz)
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

Hoping for a 7-4 road trip here...go Sox.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

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pedey!
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by hrstrat57 »

Called shot by Lyons nice job!
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

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Pedey hitting cleanup tonite ===> Laser Show
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:Hoping for a 7-4 road trip here...go Sox.
Only need to sweep the Dodger to make it happen 8-)

6 walks in 6 innings...that's a problem...otherwise decent outing by Percy...
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by ramster »

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:
NYGFan_Section208 wrote:Hoping for a 7-4 road trip here...go Sox.
Only need to sweep the Dodger to make it happen 8-)

6 walks in 6 innings...that's a problem...otherwise decent outing by Percy...
Dodgers this weekend then 3 games with the Yankees. Big week upcoming.
How soon before this guy is on the field?

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_ ... red_sox_to
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

I don't really see a spot on this years team unless there is a significant injury to Hanley or Ortiz that forces Shaw to play 1st and Moncada can come up and play 3rd. They just brought in Hill who covers most of the infield and Holt can also be used in a utility role. Those guys seem fine in their current role. However I think realistically he's your starting 3B in 2017 with Shaw moving to 1st and Hanley moving to DH.

One thing I don't rule out though is Moncada making a postseason roster due to his stolen base capacity. Quentin Berry made the 2013 postseason roster as a situational baserunner in 2013. He played in 1 game each series and had 1 stolen base. He never registered an at-bat and don't think he ever played the field. Moncada has more positional/hitting value than Berry did, but that might be his way to sneak onto a playoff roster.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

Gotta MAKE the playoffs first....need a sweep here.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

Well they have Drew Pomeranz so I figured it was a lock :lol: :lol: :lol:

Believe it or not, the Fangraphs Playoff projections give the Sox a 81.5% chance of making the playoffs. Have Sox finishing 2nd to Blue Jays in AL East at 90-72, Jays at 91-71, and Orioles at 88-74. They think 88 wins is the magic number for a wildcard which means the Sox only have to play .500 baseball the rest of the way to hit it.

Their hitting projections all seem reasonable, it's more the pitching ones if you were to question them.

Price - 3.32 ERA.
Pomeranz - 3.67 ERA.
Porcello - 4.02 ERA.
Wright - 4.20 ERA
Rodriguez - 4.3 ERA
-----------------------------
Average Starters ERA: 3.9
Current Starting Pitching ERA: 4.6

Bullpen
Kimbrel - 2.65 ERA
Tazawa - 3.48 ERA
Ross - 3.56 ERA
Ziegler - 3.57 ERA
Abad - 3.8 ERA
Barnes - 4.19 ERA
Buchholz - 4.30 ERA
-------------------------------
Average Bullpen ERA: 3.65
Current Bullpen ERA: 3.68

Of course existing ERA's can be inflated by injuries or failed roles early in the season, bullpen seems fair, rotation more the question mark for me.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

Am thinking the potential 'come back to bite you' stats are....offense was so effective and the schedule was so front-loaded home-friendly...they should have built up a lead. If they can somehow get through this "2/3 of the remaining schedule on the road" thing and win the division (or the play-in game)...they'll win it all.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by ramster »

rjsuperfly66 wrote:Well they have Drew Pomeranz so I figured it was a lock :lol: :lol: :lol:

Believe it or not, the Fangraphs Playoff projections give the Sox a 81.5% chance of making the playoffs. Have Sox finishing 2nd to Blue Jays in AL East at 90-72, Jays at 91-71, and Orioles at 88-74. They think 88 wins is the magic number for a wildcard which means the Sox only have to play .500 baseball the rest of the way to hit it.

Their hitting projections all seem reasonable, it's more the pitching ones if you were to question them.

Price - 3.32 ERA.
Pomeranz - 3.67 ERA.
Porcello - 4.02 ERA.
Wright - 4.20 ERA
Rodriguez - 4.3 ERA
-----------------------------
Average Starters ERA: 3.9
Current Starting Pitching ERA: 4.6

Bullpen
Kimbrel - 2.65 ERA
Tazawa - 3.48 ERA
Ross - 3.56 ERA
Ziegler - 3.57 ERA
Abad - 3.8 ERA
Barnes - 4.19 ERA
Buchholz - 4.30 ERA
-------------------------------
Average Bullpen ERA: 3.65
Current Bullpen ERA: 3.68

Of course existing ERA's can be inflated by injuries or failed roles early in the season, bullpen seems fair, rotation more the question mark for me.
Since you fire a shot at Pomeranz, let's look at what Anderson "Pedro Martinez" has done since the trade for the Fort Wayne Tincaps:
0-1 record on 3 starts
4.26 era
12.2 innings pitched giving up 14 hits
6 walks and 8 K's
Of course it's Way too early to judge this trade
I'd hate to see our chances had we not obtained Pomeranz - don't know who would have been our other starter
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

I still like the trade...the Pommer doesn't have to be awesome to make it worthwhile.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

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Can he win a game at least?
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

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UCH21377 wrote:Can he win a game at least?
That would help...last outing wasn't bad though
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

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Can anyone recall the last time Carl Willis came to the mound and something 'good' happened?
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by ramster »

I'm more concerned about David price than with pommer
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

The Price is NOT right...everyone is so comfy in the box...he needs some 1:1 with Pedro....
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

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Benintendi...hitting the ball to all fields....what a stud... 8-)
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by ramster »

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:Benintendi...hitting the ball to all fields....what a stud... 8-)
One of the great Red Sox trades this year was to NOT trade Benintendi!!!
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

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Isn't it too early to tell that? Kid has had 16 MLB at-bats.
If the Sox can't win it all this year because they don't have another top-end starter, it'll always be a debate whether they should have dealt him.
After all, you're the same crew that shouted about a win-now approach when the Sox dealt Espinosa for Pomeranz, and then they hold Benitendi and it's the smartest move in the world.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by hrstrat57 »

I wouldn't have traded AB for Sale......

Kid is gonna rake for years.......

(Moncada I might have considered)

Pomeranz deal not looking so good......
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by hrstrat57 »

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:The Price is NOT right...everyone is so comfy in the box...he needs some 1:1 with Pedro....

Hasn't got Big Papi to get pissed at any more.......
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

hrstrat57 wrote:I wouldn't have traded AB for Sale......

Kid is gonna rake for years.......

(Moncada I might have considered)
Moncada is considered to be the better prospect, he was ranked by Baseball America as the top prospect in baseball in their midseason rankings, and as of about 1 week ago they were playing at the same level. Any reason you would have considered dealing him but Benintendi is off limits?
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

Moncada and Benetendi should have been considered in the right deal and I think they were ... The reality of the Sale deal was that the WS basically wanted both plus EROD and other young, MLB ready kids. It wasn't the right deal, I think DD would have parted with either and a bucket of balls to get Sale. However, I think people have gotten simply looney over this. One person told me they would struggle to trade JBJ for Sale straight up although they thought they would ultimately do it. Thats lunacy to me.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by Billyboy78 »

You really want Hanley as your DH next year? There are some good free agent power hitters like Encarnation out there. I think they deal Hanley if they can find any takers with that contract.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by SGreenwell »

Billyboy78 wrote:You really want Hanley as your DH next year? There are some good free agent power hitters like Encarnation out there. I think they deal Hanley if they can find any takers with that contract.
I think chasing after a guy like Edwin Encarnación would just be repeating the Hanley mistake though, since he's 33 and would probably be heading into a similar decline phase as Ramirez, and make about the same amount of money. Ortiz is more like a generational exception than the rule when it comes to aging sluggers, as even guys who looked like sure-fire all-time record breakers like Pujols have broken down with age. (Side note: Pedroia turns 33 this month, which somehow seems impossible, because it feels like he's been in Boston for 30 years.)

I'd rather see the Sox try some low-money patches at 1B/DH for a couple years, and maybe slot in a prospect there if one develops appropriately. You could also keep the spot open for the inevitable guy who slides down the defensive spectrum, whether that's Moncada because he keeps growing, Pedroia because he slows down, a slugging corner OF acquired in a trade, etc.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

I don't see why anyone would take Hanley on his current contract. Also, I don't think Hanley has been an issue this season. He's overpaid, especially if he moves to DH. But probably not by that much. And the patch is probably pretty simple, move Shaw to 1st and Moncada to 3rd. Low cost moves.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by Shaolin Swat »

I don't mind Hanley as the DH next year, or even as the starting first baseman for that matter. I also wouldn't mind if they found a trade partner for him(emphasis on "if" - don't see anyone trading for him without the Sox paying a significant portion of the contract). What I don't want is repeating the same mistakes (signing "big-name" free agents who are past their prime to deals that will look like a horrible within a year - see Crawford, Sandoval, Ramirez). Also, what I don't want is signing someone with the idea of them simply serving as your designated hitter. That philosophy is becoming outdated, as it limits your team's flexibility (ex. Being forced to start Ortiz at 1B while having to put Adrian Gonzalez in RF to keep both bats in the lineup). Give a couple of young guys an opportunity to seize the job - especially now, since the Sox have a bunch of quality prospects.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

rjsuperfly66 wrote:Isn't it too early to tell that? Kid has had 16 MLB at-bats.
If the Sox can't win it all this year because they don't have another top-end starter, it'll always be a debate whether they should have dealt him.
After all, you're the same crew that shouted about a win-now approach when the Sox dealt Espinosa for Pomeranz, and then they hold Benitendi and it's the smartest move in the world.
Two completely different situations, imo. Benintendi and Espinoza aren't even close to the same plane...not an even comparison. Espinoza is waaaay further away and (remains) so much more of an unknown.

It's one thing to trade for a guy (who's playing mediocre, but at least on mlb roster) and see the traded prospect continue to scuffle in A ball, with no freekn idea when/if he'd ever be ready to play in the majors....and another to trade a prospect knowing he would likely be in the majors within months...they knew that, and that's why one is still here and the other isn't
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:It's one thing to trade for a guy (who's playing mediocre, but at least on mlb roster) and see the traded prospect continue to scuffle in A ball, with no freekn idea when/if he'd ever be ready to play in the majors....and another to trade a prospect knowing he would likely be in the majors within months...they knew that, and that's why one is still here and the other isn't
Mediocre? Granted there's a sample size issue, but he's 0-2 with a 6.20 ERA. That's square in awful territory. Sometimes you get what you paid for. Instead of trading something of real value, we traded a lottery ticket and in return we got a 27 year old with half a good season in 2014 and a half a good season this year with an average season in between who's never been able to pitch a whole season. Perhaps if we had dealt a real prospect we could have gotten something of value in return instead of someone who is worse then the options we already had.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

"Lottery ticket"....perfect compare.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

Prospects are most definitely a lottery ticket, but I think the reality is when you have a guy ranked in the Top 15 of most major publications, there is value to other teams in that. I think people looked at that backwards, instead of seeing the value of him being a Top 15 prospect that others might want, they said "Look, he might not ever pan out so let's dump him now for something that might be decent." And in the process they rushed a move that could still work out ok for them, but lost them a chip for someone who could have been a factor for a major pitcher. I think most would agree that they would be happy with Pomeranz now if he could even give them a 4 ERA the rest of the way, and that's not the type of impactful player you traded a Top 15 prospect for. Guys like Chapman and Miller had huge asks, but they are expected to be dynamic relievers in a pennant race.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

I think...until Espinoza performs at a level that is noticeable and in progression toward a major league roster spot...and it doesn't seem like that is going to happen this year... trade for Percy gets a thumbs up.

Rating baseball prospects is definitely an inexact science, but I wonder where Espinoza stands among all prospects 'right now'...is he really still top 15? And is that a 'drop' from earlier in the year?
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by ramster »

Would you rather have Bucholtz pitching tonight against the Yankees or Pommer?
Red Sox had to make a trade because nobody stepped up into the 4th starting spot - they gave plenty of opportunities but nobody stepped up
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

Actually...going to get to see Clay soon...I think he's pitching Saturday?
Bucholz's last 5 outings...not too bad... 7.2 3H, 1BB, 1R... he may have some value after all....
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

Let's see if the pommer can break.....The Curse of the Willis...
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by ramster »

rjsuperfly66 wrote:Isn't it too early to tell that? Kid has had 16 MLB at-bats.
If the Sox can't win it all this year because they don't have another top-end starter, it'll always be a debate whether they should have dealt him.
After all, you're the same crew that shouted about a win-now approach when the Sox dealt Espinosa for Pomeranz, and then they hold Benitendi and it's the smartest move in the world.
When the Red Sox time to pick 7th in the 2015 draft I was elated that they drafted Benintendi. I loved the kid then and even more so now. I was not surprised at all to see him make the jump from AA to the Bigs bypassing AAA Pawtucket.
He has experience from playing SEC Baseball at Arkansas unlike many who jump straight from High School.
Red Sox drafting has really improved the past 3 years.

As for Espinosa, I know I read he was the 15th best prospect but I questions that, and he certainly has dropped significantly since.

As for Pommer, the fact that Price is not performing up to expectations and even falling further off makes the Pommer trade even more important. I would not be surprised to see Pommer our #3 starter behind Porcello and Wright.
We have to get Price pitching better if we are to sniff the World Series.

http://nesn.com/2015/06/red-sox-draft-o ... mlb-draft/
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by Shaolin Swat »

ramster wrote:
rjsuperfly66 wrote:Isn't it too early to tell that? Kid has had 16 MLB at-bats.
If the Sox can't win it all this year because they don't have another top-end starter, it'll always be a debate whether they should have dealt him.
After all, you're the same crew that shouted about a win-now approach when the Sox dealt Espinosa for Pomeranz, and then they hold Benitendi and it's the smartest move in the world.
When the Red Sox time to pick 7th in the 2015 draft I was elated that they drafted Benintendi. I loved the kid then and even more so now. I was not surprised at all to see him make the jump from AA to the Bigs bypassing AAA Pawtucket.
He has experience from playing SEC Baseball at Arkansas unlike many who jump straight from High School.
Red Sox drafting has really improved the past 3 years.

As for Espinosa, I know I read he was the 15th best prospect but I questions that, and he certainly has dropped significantly since.

As for Pommer, the fact that Price is not performing up to expectations and even falling further off makes the Pommer trade even more important. I would not be surprised to see Pommer our #3 starter behind Porcello and Wright.
We have to get Price pitching better if we are to sniff the World Series.

http://nesn.com/2015/06/red-sox-draft-o ... mlb-draft/
There is no chance that Price isn't one of the top three playoff starters. The Red Sox did not pay him $200+ million to be a back of the rotation playoff starter. For better or worse, your top three starters in the playoffs are going to wind up being Price, Porcello and Pomeranz (in some order). Wright (who has an ERA of 4.95 over the last month) and Pomeranz are going to be battling to be your 3 starter, but I think Pomeranz will ultimately get the nod ahead of Wright.

As for Espinoza being the 15th prospect, I don't think its fair to say he's dropped considerably. He was ranked #19 at the beginning of the season and was moved up to the #15 ranking a month ago. He's an 18 year old pitcher in A ball who, despite average numbers, multiple organizations have seen no reason to move him down to low-A ball. Like I've mentioned before, with minor leaguers (especially those in the lower minors), you have to take raw numbers with a grain of salt. The numbers don't mean a ton, as a lot of times, players are working to achieve specific goals (ex. improve fastball command, be more patient at the plate). Focusing on these goals can skew the players numbers, especially with pitchers, who are usually only throwing 3-4 innings a start.
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rjsuperfly66
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

ramster wrote:Would you rather have Bucholtz pitching tonight against the Yankees or Pommer?
Red Sox had to make a trade because nobody stepped up into the 4th starting spot - they gave plenty of opportunities but nobody stepped up
I hate this argument though, Bucholtz was awful, no doubt about it. But using that logic, you can trade anyone for anyone because you're just improving the roster, and that logic is so flawed. There has to be some level of value for guys. Even if you don't like Espinosa, scouts love him, teams love him, so there is value in that. Pomeranz is basically giving you 5 innings, 6 hits, 3 ER, 3 BB, 5K's. That's over 5 starts. Comparitvely, in Bucholtz's 13 starts he averaged 5 2/3 innings, 6 hits, 4 ER, 2 BB, 3 K's. Even at that, the question isn't "Is it an improvement?" Sure, even though the numbers don't really bare it out I think it is an improvement. The question is did you maximize the value of your young prospect... could you have gotten something a little better than what you did? Maybe something a little more established?
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ramster
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by ramster »

So,let's take what have you done for me lately
Pomeranz goes 5.1 innings last night
5Ks
1 walk
1 run
6 hits
Shuts down the Yankees in a big, big game with playoffs on the line
Farrell does his usual over managing and pulls him after 93 pitches and the bull pen Implodes

It's not Pommers fault Farrell is an idiot

Fact,is Espinosa has been far from a 15th ranked player since leavong and that is at single A.

I stand by the trade and nothing has changed my mind. I would do it again.

Maybe Espinosa will prove to be a Pedro Martinez, hope he does, but nothing indicates that to be the case since the trade.
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Re: Red Sox and other Major League Baseball - 2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

How can you say he overmanaged?
I'm no Farrell guy, but Pomeranz went single-walk to put 2 on with 1 out, and walked Tex on an uncompetitive 5 pitches.
I'm sure what also factored into that is that Pomeranz has only averaged 91 pitches as a member of the Sox.
Buchholz comes in and gets a double play and they get out of the inning clean.
If he leaves Pom in and Castro gets a hit and scores a run, people are questioning Farrell why he left Pomeranz with it clearly looking like he was starting to fatigue.
It's one of those really no-win managerial situations but you can't dispute the facts of that inning that he made a move and got the best possible outcome which to me makes it hard to dispute the pull.
And if Pom completes the inning, he's not coming out for the 7th so it's probably Barnes' outing to lose anyway.
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