CELTICS and the NBA

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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rodfromcranston » 5 months ago

Hayward is 27 years old, and you expect him to 'add muscle"???
Griffin's career stats in every category are far superior to Haywards,
and gives an interior presence Hayward never could.
Oh, and Griffin is 28 years old. One year difference.
I understand the injury concerns, but IF he could stay healthy,
he would be immense.
Say "NO!" to Butler.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby SGreenwell » 5 months ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Hayward is 27 years old, and you expect him to 'add muscle"???
Griffin's career stats in every category are far superior to Haywards,
and gives an interior presence Hayward never could.
Oh, and Griffin is 28 years old. One year difference.
I understand the injury concerns, but IF he could stay healthy,
he would be immense.
Say "NO!" to Butler.

Griffin's injury history is immense at this point, though, and he's an interior player. I don't think he's likely to preserve his health better as he gets into his 30s, and much of his game is built around being an incredible athlete. From a Ringer article, his list of injuries:

First, to his left leg: sprained MCL, broken kneecap, meniscus tear, partially torn quadriceps, high ankle sprain, knee bone bruise, sprained knee, and strained hamstring. As for his right: He suffered torn cartilage in his right knee in college and underwent “minor” surgery on his right knee this season to remove “loose bodies.” Over the years, he’s suffered other miscellaneous injuries, like a back stress fracture, right-elbow staph infection, and broken right hand. We can now add bruised big right toe to the list.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby EGram » 5 months ago

SG that was my first thought also about Griffin but looking at his numbers he's actually changed his game a ton over the years just few who weren't watching the Clips all the time noticed as his numbers pretty much stayed the same.

Griffin is one of the most skilled big men in he game and is pretty much an under the basket player at this point in his career. He can create his own shot, is an elite passer/dribbler for a big man, and is a top notch defensive rebounder. Something the Celtics badly need.

Now it's still a question of if he can stay healthy enough to stay on the court. But if you think he an he would be a pretty nice pick up given he excels a two of the teams two huge needs in the ability to score without IT and defensive rebounding.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby Seawrightspostgame » 5 months ago

I think Griffin is a better rebounder than Horford. To beat the cavs you must be able to contend with Thompson on the glass. He can't just rebound it until they make a shot every time down.

Griffin rolling off of a screen is huge too. Horford is pick and pop. Not the basket threat that Griffin is. The two of them could compliment each other well. Especially considering the different Celtics that handle the ball in the pick and roll. They all have a different style.
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Unread postby EGram » 5 months ago

Boston Herald and some other sources saying Celtics interested in Dennis Smith and may trade down slightly to get more value. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2717 ... trade-back


Sounds Like its gonna be Smith or Tatum.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby Rhody74 » 5 months ago

Jonathan Isaac may also be in the mix, per this morning's ProJo.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby EGram » 5 months ago

Anyone have any guys they want the Celtics to take a shot at in the second round? we have two three picks 37,41,and 56 I or something close to that.

Sindarius Thornwell interests me. if his Senior year is legit there is no way he should be lasting beyond pick 15-20 or so.

Ryan Leaf would be worth a shot in the second. Although I feel that UCLA tends to inflate the shooting ability of it's plyers and his 66% foul shooting is more telling then his 46% 3pt shooting.

Juwan Evans is someone I suspect Danny is interested in. He is only a 6ft PG but has a freakish ability to get to the rim. Averaging nearly twice as many unassisted shots at the basket as the next best player in the draft at this skill.

Ivan Rabb and Swanigan would be interesting just because we need rebounding so bad. 5-10 years ago these two guys would go in the teens. It's crazy how both will likely be second round picks now.

My Fantasy draft would be. assuming we don't trade for a star.

Trade 3+ Celtics 2018 first (not brk or LAL) to Sac for 5 +10

5. Dennis Smith Jr

10. Lauri Markannen (Malik monk or Zach Collins potentially if the picks fall differently)

37. Ivan Rabb

41. Sindarius Thornwell


Edit: Woj is now saying there is huge demand to trade into thr top 4 to select Josh Jackson. Starting to think there is a good chance we trade 3.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby Billyboy78 » 5 months ago

If Isaac is the guy Ainge wants, I'd expect to see him make that trade down with Sacramento. Grab Isaac at 5 and then maybe Zach Collins at 10.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby STC » 5 months ago

-If C's stay at 3 please draft Tatum. If the C's go Jonathan Isaac I will throw my tv out the window.

-Don't trade for Butler unless money is even. No reason to give up pick and close the door on Hayward to bring in Butler.

-Definitely want Porzingis but Phil Jackson's asking price is outrageous.

-Tatum reminds me a little of Grant Hill.

STC Big Board:
1. Fultz
2. Tatum
3. Ball
4. Jackson
5. Fox
6. Monk

7 and beyond who cares.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby ramster » 5 months ago

EGram wrote:Anyone have any guys they want the Celtics to take a shot at in the second round? we have two three picks 37,41,and 56 I or something close to that.

Sindarius Thornwell interests me. if his Senior year is legit there is no way he should be lasting beyond pick 15-20 or so.

Ryan Leaf would be worth a shot in the second. Although I feel that UCLA tends to inflate the shooting ability of it's plyers and his 66% foul shooting is more telling then his 46% 3pt shooting.

Juwan Evans is someone I suspect Danny is interested in. He is only a 6ft PG but has a freakish ability to get to the rim. Averaging nearly twice as many unassisted shots at the basket as the next best player in the draft at this skill.

Ivan Rabb and Swanigan would be interesting just because we need rebounding so bad. 5-10 years ago these two guys would go in the teens. It's crazy how both will likely be second round picks now.

My Fantasy draft would be. assuming we don't trade for a star.

Trade 3+ Celtics 2018 first (not brk or LAL) to Sac for 5 +10

5. Dennis Smith Jr

10. Lauri Markannen (Malik monk or Zach Collins potentially if the picks fall differently)

37. Ivan Rabb

41. Sindarius Thornwell


Edit: Woj is now saying there is huge demand to trade into thr top 4 to select Josh Jackson. Starting to think there is a good chance we trade 3.


I'm all in for Jason Tatum at 3rd pick - I'd love to see this happen

Caleb Swanigan at 37 if he is still available but I doubt it
Alec Peters at 41, but I really like Thornwell too. Might take Thornwell at 37 if Swanigan is gone.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rodfromcranston » 5 months ago

Swanigan was a great college player.
I wonder if he's quick enough for the next level?
Same with Alec Smith.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby Rhodymob05 » 5 months ago

I like the Tatum pick, Ainge needs a huge off season though.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby ramster » 5 months ago

Love the move by Ainge. I would have taken Tatum over Fultz or Ball even if I had the #1 pick. He gets a future draft pick to boot by dropping from 1 to 3.
Chad Ford said a number of GMs had Tatum #1 on their draft boards.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby EGram » 5 months ago

I don't dislike he tatum pick. but I do think ainge beter hope he really pans out as I feel we may regret passing on Fultz, smith, and Ball for him.

Ojeyele seemed like a pretty good pick in the 2nd round. 6ft 8 dude who shot 42% from 3pt range.

But wow we just have too many wings.. I bet Danny is signing Blake griffin as it's hard to believe he would add another expensive wing in Hayward even with a trade of Crowder.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 5 months ago

EGram wrote:I bet Danny is signing Blake griffin as it's hard to believe he would add another expensive wing in Hayward even with a trade of Crowder.


I want Hayward over Griffin, but I'm having a tough time justifying that with the current roster.
Just look at the frontcourt ... The only signed guys right now are Horford, Zeller, and Mickey, with Zizic and Yabousele eligible to be added to the roster.
That is one known, with a whole lot of question marks (or suck, in the case of Zeller).
At least with Zizic, it sounds like he could be good, but from all reports doesn't seem like he can come in and be instant impact.
Olynyk coming back (a player I don't like) would be helpful, but also read that he's expecting $10-$16 million as an RFA, and some speculation he would get the higher end.
That's the going rate for fringe NBA starters these days, so it sounds fair.
Mozgov and Mahinmi, more in the line of true centers, they both signed for 4x$16 last year, and both were 30+ with limited ceilings.
Can't imagine the C's would commit to that type of contract.
Think that would make going after Griffin more of a priority, otherwise they'll be going extremely small this season.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby Rhodymob05 » 5 months ago

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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby SGreenwell » 4 months ago

ESPN and other outlets are reporting that the Clippers traded Chris Paul to the Rockets for a first round pick, Sam Dekker, Lou Williams, Patrick Beverley and some non-guaranteed contracts. If Paul told the Clippers he wasn't going to re-sign, then it's a decent return, but yikes, it seems like the rebuild is on for the Clippers.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby EGram » 4 months ago

Shame our Future clipper pick is lottery protected. Starting to think it s unlikely to activate in 19 or 20.


I really like the idea of getting Paul George. Unlike Butler he is an excellent 3pt shooter who also dominates the ball less. IF Celtics can get him to resign that would be a sweet move.


Gotta say I am worried about of trading smart and Crowder tho. If only we could get Griffin or Hayward to sign for like 4-5m less then max
t

Will be very interesting to see how the two EUROS Yabu and Ante turn out!
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rodfromcranston » 4 months ago

I don't get the Celtic's wanting to trade number one draft picks
AND players for a one year rental.
George is a 42% career shooter and 4.5rpg.
Griffin at 9,5 averages more rebounds than George and Hayward COMBINED!
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 4 months ago

rodfromcranston wrote:I don't get the Celtic's wanting to trade number one draft picks
AND players for a one year rental.
George is a 42% career shooter and 4.5rpg.
Griffin at 9,5 averages more rebounds than George and Hayward COMBINED!


Well at least with regards to George, he averaged 8.8 rebounds in the 4 playoff games against Lebron and Cleveland.
He'll definitely hit the glass more than Hayward, for sure.
But I think that's the way the NBA is going.
You need one guy who can hit the glass, and other guys who can rebound when needed.
That's basically how Cleveland is built, I wouldn't consider them a big team.
Love and Lebron do some work on the boards, but I think of Thompson as their only true big.
Heck, Golden St. at the end of games basically has Green playing center.
Seeing as how those are the two teams you need to pass at this point, that's how I look at the rosters.
I don't think you need to get Griffin just because he is a superior rebounder.
I have other questions about the frontcourt, but I go back-and-forth on it.

I don't want the C's to gut the farm for George, but if you can get him for one of the picks, and some of the players you are going to lose to free agency anyway, then I'm ok with that deal.
Guys like Smart, Bradley, they aren't in the long-term plans.
They can't be.
Just like Olynyk, in today's open market they'll command $16-$18 million over 4 years.
So if you move them and you're worst Top 5 pick (another piece you probably can't take because of salary if you want to get other guys who command max dollars), I'm ok taking that shot.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rodfromcranston » 4 months ago

Except that Kevin Love is a far superior rebounder than Thompson, by
3 rpg in their career, and 2 rpg last season.
Both guys are 6'10", coupled with Lebron, sorry,
that's a big team.
Love lead the NBA in rebounds on year and is in the top 10 for 6 other years.
4 games for George is a pitifully small sample, vs. his career and season
numbers in rebounds.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 4 months ago

I know it's a small sample size, but if you look only at career numbers, you aren't allowing for recent growth/improvements in those aspects of someone's game.
Plus, the game has changed and rosters are built differently.
George averaged 8.8 rebounds in 8 games against Cleveland this year, and had 10 rebounds in his matchup against Golden St.
I'd say that's pretty good, not that I'd say he's a dynamic rebounder, but that he can be good.
If the C's go with 6'8 --> Hayward, 6'9 -->George, 6'10-->Horford, there should be enough height on the court to gang rebound in today's NBA.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby Rhodymob05 » 4 months ago

Speculation is telling me that Ainge isn't making any deals this summer, and that would be disappointing to say the least.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 4 months ago

Can't believe all is quiet here on the NBA front ...

Hayward still at large.
George to the Thunder.
Griffin back to LA.

FA has been live for not even 12 hours, and it looks like the big 4th of July spectacle we would have all loved has been rained out.

Hayward will still help if he comes here, but the gap between the C's and Cavs still seems to be rather large.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby Rhodymob05 » 4 months ago

NBA is a joke. Pacers got screwed by George then pacers screw themselves. Griffin sines a huge deal in a wasteland.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 4 months ago

It just continues to show, it's all about LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION ... The NBA salary cap structure with set maxes is a killer for many times ... If a player wants to maximize their money, they go to a state with no income tax ... If they want a great location, there are plenty of them out there. It's hard for teams to differentiate themselves, the super max is a start, but even then, players will just force themselves out of town via a trade, and re-up with a team where they want to be if the money is that important. Just look at what CP3 did ... Opted back in to Clips contract just to end up in his destination in Houston (no income tax), and he'll sign a mega-deal next offseason.

It's also funny, because 85% of the most talented guys in the league are out west. So much for the push about "Come to Boston, it's an easier road, just have to figure out how to get by Cleveland."
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby SGreenwell » 4 months ago

Rhodymob05 wrote:NBA is a joke. Pacers got screwed by George then pacers screw themselves. Griffin sines a huge deal in a wasteland.

Screwed by George? He gave them plenty of years to figure things out and surround him with talent, and also gave them a "heads up!" that he wouldn't be re-signing. He's not from Indiana, so should he just be required to play there the rest of his life because they happened to draft him X years ago?
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 4 months ago

The Pacers definitely got screwed by George's public desire to go play in LA --- it's not that he owed Pritchard or Indiana anything, but you have to acknowledge it's very hard to swing a trade to another team for max assets when the other team is thinks there is minimal chance of retaining him. His desire to leave became far too public, to the point where I don't think anyone in Indiana would find it courteous. It also backed the Pacers into a corner where they lose him for nothing in 2018 or they trade him for 50 cents on the dollar to try to get something back for him.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby SGreenwell » 4 months ago

rjsuperfly66 wrote:The Pacers definitely got screwed by George's public desire to go play in LA --- it's not that he owed Pritchard or Indiana anything, but you have to acknowledge it's very hard to swing a trade to another team for max assets when the other team is thinks there is minimal chance of retaining him. His desire to leave became far too public, to the point where I don't think anyone in Indiana would find it courteous. It also backed the Pacers into a corner where they lose him for nothing in 2018 or they trade him for 50 cents on the dollar to try to get something back for him.

The alternative was that he could have just said nothing, or outright lied, and then went to the Lakers with the Pacers getting nothing in return. The Pacers aren't helpless in the exchange either - They ultimately made bets on players like Roy Hibbert that went badly as the league shifted away from centers who are unplayable on offense.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rodfromcranston » 4 months ago

Once again. the elephant labored mightily and brought forth a mouse.
It looks pretty obvious that the only way Ainge can get players is
to trade for them.
Boston, for a few reasons, is not a "destination city" for NBA players.
I love Steph Curry, but 40 million a year is mind blowing.
That will set the market for Lebron and others in free agency.
With the cap, it makes it very difficult to build a complete
team with one player eating so much of the cap.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby adam914 » 4 months ago

Might as well just cancel the regular season and skip right to the Finals at this point. The NBA is a joke.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 4 months ago

LOL, I've always said the way the NBA sets up free agency, it's a farce that all teams with cap space can offer the same deal
Take this example ...You work as a marketing rep.
A firm in LA offers you $250K to move to LA and work for them.
At the same time, a firm in Billings, MT offers you $250K to move to Montana and work for them.
Where do you go?
I think most people probably would choose the bright lights and celebrity status in LA -- I know I would.
Now, replay the scenario as if NBA teams could offer whatever they wanted to potential free agents...
Firm A in LA offers you $250K.
Firm B in Montana knows it's disadvantages and offers you $400K.
Do you at least consider Montana now?
Many probably take that offer... and that's my problem with the NBA ...
If a team wanted to offer 70% of it's cap to one player, why stop them?
The pro is that many teams probably have 1 superstar, since they go somewhere to get that huge deal.
If they want to struggle to fill out their role players, let them, but right now, it's set up to favor certain teams in certain cities.
Maybe it's not the impossible dream to get someone, but there are reasons most big free agency signings happen in a few different cities.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 4 months ago

More Great News:

Kevin O'Connor
NBA Staff Writer for "The Ringer"

Three league sources sense the current favorite for Gordon Hayward is Miami. Reasons: better lifestyle, Spoelstra, "feature scoring role." Things can obviously change after meetings. But Miami clearly should not be underestimated as a destination. It won't be an easy choice. For those asking, "Isn't Hayward a feature scorer in Utah?" No, 15.8 FGA is not featured. He's capable of much more.

This was all posted on OConnors twitter 1 hour ago.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby STC » 4 months ago

Wow that Paul George trade is awful for Indiana. Just stunning that Indiana would rather send George out west than keep George in the East for a much better return. As a Celtics fan the George-OKC trade is deflating but if they can get Hayward I still think it's a nice offseason for Celtics. I think the odds of the Celtics landing Hayward took a hit with the George trade.

Kind of surprised how quickly Blake Griffin re-signed but it's clear he wants lifestyle and more money than potentially competing for titles.

Western Conference is going to be fun next year - Warriors, Spurs, Rockets, Thunder, Wolves.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rodfromcranston » 4 months ago

Oladeipo and Sabonis are not awful players.
Sabonis showed flashes as a rookie, and Oladeipo is
a good defender.
However, how is it "trader Danny" couldn't make a better
offer to Indiana?
With Westbrook throwing up shots at an amazing clip,
it's hard to imagine role players looking good on
the Thunder.
He'll have to share the ball with George, much as
he had to with Durant.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 4 months ago

I actually think Oladipo and Sabonis are pretty good players...thinking the Pacers got the better of that deal.
Seems like a lot to give up for a guy for one year....
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby Billyboy78 » 4 months ago

I don't understand why any team would give up anything for a one year rental unless that was the piece needed to compete for a championship . George and Hayward certainly wouldn't have put the Celtics in position to beat Golden State next year. And the the following year, George is in L.A. So, what's the point?. Hopefully sign Hayward and keep building.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby SGreenwell » 4 months ago

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:I actually think Oladipo and Sabonis are pretty good players...thinking the Pacers got the better of that deal.
Seems like a lot to give up for a guy for one year....

Oladipo's value is tempered somewhat by his contract. I believe he's owed three or four years, at $21M per year. He didn't develop much playing next to Westbrook, which is understandable, but I don't think his value is that high right now, given how much money he's owed.

Sabonis looked like a decent rotation big. If his shot improves, he could be a starter or a good piece off the bench. But I'd rather have the home-run chance of high draft picks, vs. two average players on my roster.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rodfromcranston » 4 months ago

Imagine JJ Riddick getting 23 million for one season!
Something's very wrong in the NBA.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby SGreenwell » 4 months ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Imagine JJ Riddick getting 23 million for one season!
Something's very wrong in the NBA.

It's a big surcharge because it's a one-year deal, though. I'm sure other teams would have given him $30M for two, or like $60M for four, if he wanted that instead. He's a good 3-point shooter who's not worthless on defense.
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby ramster » 4 months ago

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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rodfromcranston » 4 months ago

Sorry, but 23 million for a career 11.5 ppg. scorer,with 1.8 assists per game,
is obscene.
23 million is elite player money, or it used to be.
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rjsuperfly66
Cuttino Mobley
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 4 months ago

It's the beauty of the NBA... with $100 million salary cap and many teams unable to sign true top talents, teams need to sign guys to short-term, high value contracts to even make the cap floor.
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ramster
Tyson Wheeler
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby ramster » 4 months ago

Hopefully the first of many game winning shots by Tatum as Celtics beat Philly and Fultz. Nice game by Jaylen Brown.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2719 ... ultz-76ers
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Rhody74
Carlton Owens
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby Rhody74 » 4 months ago

Hayward will decide today, per NESN.
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Rhody74
Carlton Owens
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby Rhody74 » 4 months ago

Hayward is a Celtic.
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Tyson Wheeler
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby ramster » 4 months ago

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EGram
Kenny Green
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby EGram » 4 months ago

So apparently it seems Hayward was gonna sign wit the Celtics but is now pissed it got leaked.

idk, seems a pretty dumb reason to change your mind but i guess we shall see.... someone on reddit says he won't decide till tomorrow now..
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ramster
Tyson Wheeler
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby ramster » 4 months ago

Does not seem it was ever official. Twitter poking fun on his inability to make a decision in the past too

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/07/gordon- ... old-tweets
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ramster
Tyson Wheeler
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Re: CELTICS and the NBA

Unread postby ramster » 4 months ago

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