The Patriot Way

NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, BPL... you get it
Billyboy78
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 7722
Joined: 4 years ago
x 545

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby Billyboy78 » 1 year ago

Legal analysts are saying now that the NFL will win this case. What a joke this whole thing has been.
0 x

Shaolin Swat
Lamar Odom
Posts: 314
Joined: 2 years ago
x 34

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby Shaolin Swat » 1 year ago

And the story that won't go away. Brady's 4 game suspension has been reinstated by a federal appeals court by a 2-1 vote.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15353 ... eals-court
0 x

User avatar
ATPTourFan
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 9101
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Wakefield, RI
x 758
Contact:

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ATPTourFan » 1 year ago

Wow, amazing.
0 x

User avatar
TruePoint
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 8319
Joined: 4 years ago
x 1426

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby TruePoint » 1 year ago

From my professional, totally unbiased perspective, Judge Parker's opinion was outright garbage. Too bad, I don't know what avenues Brady realistically has left. I thought Berman's opinion was legally solid and better argued than Parker's, but unfortunately the Court of Appeals heard this case de novo, so they didn't have to confront Berman's decision head on. Basically, the Court of Appeals found that under the CBA, Goodell can do whatever he wants and the court is in no position to say whether he was right or wrong, and therefore the court can't overturn the suspension. That is a very questionable conclusion, in my opinion, but I don't think it presents an important enough policy question to be given cert by the SCOTUS.
0 x

User avatar
ATPTourFan
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 9101
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Wakefield, RI
x 758
Contact:

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ATPTourFan » 1 year ago

I love it when Truepoint uses fancy latin words in italics.
0 x

User avatar
TruePoint
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 8319
Joined: 4 years ago
x 1426

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby TruePoint » 1 year ago

ATPTourFan wrote:I love it when Truepoint uses fancy latin words in italics.


You mean like "can't"?

:lol:
0 x

User avatar
rodfromcranston
Frank Keaney
Posts: 12892
Joined: 4 years ago
x 1117

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rodfromcranston » 1 year ago

Ugh!
Guess I should forget about hearing any
Celtics or Red Sox talk on sports radio.
Now everyone will become a legal expert
on this silly mess.
0 x
< Arthur is my spirit animal.

User avatar
RhowdyRam02
Carlton Owens
Posts: 3463
Joined: 4 years ago
x 707

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 1 year ago

TruePoint wrote:From my professional, totally unbiased perspective, Judge Parker's opinion was outright garbage. Too bad, I don't know what avenues Brady realistically has left. I thought Berman's opinion was legally solid and better argued than Parker's, but unfortunately the Court of Appeals heard this case de novo, so they didn't have to confront Berman's decision head on. Basically, the Court of Appeals found that under the CBA, Goodell can do whatever he wants and the court is in no position to say whether he was right or wrong, and therefore the court can't overturn the suspension. That is a very questionable conclusion, in my opinion, but I don't think it presents an important enough policy question to be given cert by the SCOTUS.


My understanding is they remanded back to Berman. Can he say fine, but now I overturn the suspension on other grounds or is he bound to uphold the suspension and the remanding is just a formality?
0 x
“We’re going to get better in the future. Coach Hurley’s history speaks for itself. I came here because I wanted to be part of his program, to help get things rolling, to help build a program," E.C. Matthews

User avatar
TruePoint
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 8319
Joined: 4 years ago
x 1426

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby TruePoint » 1 year ago

RhowdyRam02 wrote:
TruePoint wrote:From my professional, totally unbiased perspective, Judge Parker's opinion was outright garbage. Too bad, I don't know what avenues Brady realistically has left. I thought Berman's opinion was legally solid and better argued than Parker's, but unfortunately the Court of Appeals heard this case de novo, so they didn't have to confront Berman's decision head on. Basically, the Court of Appeals found that under the CBA, Goodell can do whatever he wants and the court is in no position to say whether he was right or wrong, and therefore the court can't overturn the suspension. That is a very questionable conclusion, in my opinion, but I don't think it presents an important enough policy question to be given cert by the SCOTUS.


My understanding is they remanded back to Berman. Can he say fine, but now I overturn the suspension on other grounds or is he bound to uphold the suspension and the remanding is just a formality?


They could have remanded it back to him requiring him to rehear the case or reissue a decision but requiring him to accept a finding that differed from what he initially found. But, in this case, they remanded "with instructions for the district court to confirm the arbitration award."
0 x

ramfan85
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2776
Joined: 4 years ago
x 199

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 1 year ago

Are there any appeals left?
0 x

User avatar
NYGFan_Section208
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2651
Joined: 1 year ago
Location: CT Transplant
x 339

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 1 year ago

Well...as stupid as it all is...it's a huge story. I still think they shouldn't even have the rule to begin with. Each team already gets to use their own footballs and the NFL wants to promote offense (soccer, take a hint) so why not let them have whatever PSI they want?

Case has already been tried, he's guilty, penalty was way out of line. But, the two things that will make the suspension stick are #1: NFLPA gave the commissioner the power to make the call, which he did. 1A - Pats have a lot of enemies (insert gi-normous chuckle here____).

I still think it's 50/50 he doesn't miss a game....
0 x

Captainron@
Kenny Green
Posts: 250
Joined: 4 years ago
x 6

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby Captainron@ » 1 year ago

ramfan85 wrote:Are there any appeals left?


Yes, they can request a review of the whole Appeals court (likely) or they can request a review of the Supreme Court which would be a long shot.
0 x

User avatar
TruePoint
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 8319
Joined: 4 years ago
x 1426

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby TruePoint » 1 year ago

Right, Brady should request to have the appeal reheard en banc (for you, ATP!). It should be noted that, like a writ of certiorari from the SCOTUS, a rehearing en banc is not an appeal as a matter of right, but rather at the court's discretion. Perhaps working in Brady's favor is that the overall score in the Second Circuit is 2-2 and that the Chief Justice wrote the dissenting opinion in the appeal, but it is not a sure-shot that the appeal will be granted an en banc rehearing. The chances are better for that than getting a cert from the SCOTUS.
0 x

User avatar
ATPTourFan
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 9101
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Wakefield, RI
x 758
Contact:

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ATPTourFan » 1 year ago

What are the chances the two judges are on the take from the NFL?

I just can't think of another valid, logical reason for their position on the matter. While it's fine that they want to cite the Arbitration Act, there exist valid grounds for overturning arbitration decisions where the process is severely flawed and unfair.

Had Goodell simply decided he wanted to punish Brady "because he can", that would be OK and upheld. However, during the process, the NFL was very sloppy and made certain execution errors that both put Brady/NFLPA in an unfair position and exposed their ignorance and prejudice in the matter. Judge Berman cited several of these in his decision, feeling that was plenty to overturn the original ruling for 4 game suspension. There were additional points he failed to reach as they weren't immediately necessary to render his decision.

They have the right to ignorance and prejudice per CBA Article 46, but they can't flub the execution of the arbitration process or risk having the decision/award overturned on appeal (which judge Berman properly decided).
0 x

User avatar
ATPTourFan
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 9101
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Wakefield, RI
x 758
Contact:

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ATPTourFan » 1 year ago

We can argue about the legal aspects all day, but does anyone today still believe there was actually any football tampering in the first place? All the circumstantial evidence cannot overcome the biggest fact of all -- there was nothing abnormal about the Patriots footballs that cannot be easily explained, and importantly, REPLICATED by science.
0 x

rhodyruckus
Kenny Green
Posts: 236
Joined: 4 years ago
x 39

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rhodyruckus » 1 year ago

No tampering of footballs was proven, yet the judges ate it right up and even repeated "facts" from the initial report which were debunked from the Berman hearing.

Basically by this extension, Goodell could say it was "more likely than not" that Brady beat his wife due to the fact Giselle was caught frowning one day, and hence he will be suspended for life. These judges refused to get involved with a factual review or examine how ridiculous the penalty fit the crime even if Tom deflated footballs. Emperor Goodell could assign a made up crime against the "integrity of the game" and give a made up penalty to railroad anyone at anytime. I know the players have a crappy CBA blah blah blah, but just think of how a similar situation would play out at your job and how fast you or your union would sue your employer for being framed and given a draconian penalty. Tom will survive, but I hate this look just from a labor/management standpoint.
0 x

User avatar
adam914
Tyson Wheeler
Posts: 5574
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Carlsbad, CA
x 802

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby adam914 » 1 year ago

ATPTourFan wrote:We can argue about the legal aspects all day, but does anyone today still believe there was actually any football tampering in the first place? All the circumstantial evidence cannot overcome the biggest fact of all -- there was nothing abnormal about the Patriots footballs that cannot be easily explained, and importantly, REPLICATED by science.


Oh I 100% believe they tampered with the footballs. But I don't care, and think it had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of any games and the fact that it has turned into this big of a shit storm is ridiculous.
0 x
"This is who we are now. Seniors will graduate and the next guys are going to step up." - Dan Hurley - March 12, 2017

User avatar
TruePoint
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 8319
Joined: 4 years ago
x 1426

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby TruePoint » 1 year ago

adam914 wrote:
ATPTourFan wrote:We can argue about the legal aspects all day, but does anyone today still believe there was actually any football tampering in the first place? All the circumstantial evidence cannot overcome the biggest fact of all -- there was nothing abnormal about the Patriots footballs that cannot be easily explained, and importantly, REPLICATED by science.


Oh I 100% believe they tampered with the footballs. But I don't care, and think it had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of any games and the fact that it has turned into this big of a shit storm is ridiculous.


You do not strike me as the type of person who doesn't believe in science. What's up?
0 x

RAM67
ARD
Posts: 654
Joined: 4 years ago
x 42

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby RAM67 » 1 year ago

I don't believe there was a conspiracy to tamper with the balls, but I think there is a possibility Macanally (?) may have adjusted over inflated balls to avoid the Jets debacle, by bringing them to accepted 12.5 levels. He may not have thought he was doing anything wrong.
0 x

User avatar
NYGFan_Section208
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2651
Joined: 1 year ago
Location: CT Transplant
x 339

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 1 year ago

I totally think that they tampered with the footballs to the greatest extent they thought they could possibly get away with it. And, I don't think it made a single, tiny bit of difference. If it was all and only due to 'the natural science', there wouldn't have been all kinds of text messages about it. Not that they 'prove' they did anything, but...but the 'science' doesn't PROVE they 'didn't' either. Would seem a lot more likely they didn't if there wasn't all kinds of publicized internal conversation about it.

It's a stupid rule, I don't care that they did it, I'm okay with it even. But, there's many that don't like the Pats that aren't the least bit heartbroken to see this outcome. Does this outcome seem reasonable? Heck, no. Am I bummed at the prospect of him missing games? Heck, no. Is it stupid for the NFL to work so hard to keep one of its premier faces on the sidelines for 25% of a season? Absolutely dumb. But the players and owners gave the commish the power to do this...now they just need to suck it up and live with it. Don't like it? Then, change it next time around.

So far, I've heard there's $20M in this...let's see how quick they can get it up to $30M...
0 x

Shaolin Swat
Lamar Odom
Posts: 314
Joined: 2 years ago
x 34

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby Shaolin Swat » 1 year ago

RAM67 wrote:I don't believe there was a conspiracy to tamper with the balls, but I think there is a possibility Macanally (?) may have adjusted over inflated balls to avoid the Jets debacle, by bringing them to accepted 12.5 levels. He may not have thought he was doing anything wrong.


This is what I thought happened as well, and this explanation fits all of the information that came out after the fact.
0 x

User avatar
adam914
Tyson Wheeler
Posts: 5574
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Carlsbad, CA
x 802

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby adam914 » 1 year ago

TruePoint wrote:
adam914 wrote:
ATPTourFan wrote:We can argue about the legal aspects all day, but does anyone today still believe there was actually any football tampering in the first place? All the circumstantial evidence cannot overcome the biggest fact of all -- there was nothing abnormal about the Patriots footballs that cannot be easily explained, and importantly, REPLICATED by science.


Oh I 100% believe they tampered with the footballs. But I don't care, and think it had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of any games and the fact that it has turned into this big of a shit storm is ridiculous.


You do not strike me as the type of person who doesn't believe in science. What's up?


You are correct there for sure in that I am not the type of person who doesn't believe in science, but from what I have seen, while the science behind it may prove that it is possible to replicate what happened it doesn't necessarily prove that it is exactly what happened in this case. In my opinion, the behavior of some of the Patriots personnel involved after the fact tells a lot about there being something more going on.
0 x
"This is who we are now. Seniors will graduate and the next guys are going to step up." - Dan Hurley - March 12, 2017

User avatar
Rhodymob05
Cuttino Mobley
Posts: 1869
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Rhode Island
x 261

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby Rhodymob05 » 1 year ago

Whatever happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty? ...which Tom has not been, Even if you're anti-New England Patriots, you must admit this whole thing is BS.
0 x
RHODE ISLAND RAMS 2017 A10 CHAMPS

User avatar
NYGFan_Section208
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2651
Joined: 1 year ago
Location: CT Transplant
x 339

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 1 year ago

Rhodymob05 wrote:Whatever happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty? ...which Tom has not been, Even if you're anti-New England Patriots, you must admit this whole thing is BS.


Innocent until proven guilty, I think, only pertains to criminal law? This is something completely different, called - rich people problems. Rich people associations make up their own rules..until they don't like the rules they've made...and then they engage the 'real' legal system and fire up their own multi-million dollar fuss-fests.

Yes, I am anti-New England Patriots, although there's no other team I'd like to see my team face in the Super Bowl :lol: :lol: I readily admit the whole thing is BS, dumb, stupid...take your pick. But, I can't say I'm bummed about it at all - Patsie fans probably shouldn't be either. Even if he does miss 4 games...I don't think it will have much, if any, impact on their season.
0 x

ramster
Tyson Wheeler
Posts: 6065
Joined: 4 years ago
x 594

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramster » 1 year ago

Tons of publicity on this but the biggest penalty on the Patriots was when Goodell robbed them of their 1st round draft pick
0 x

ramfan85
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2776
Joined: 4 years ago
x 199

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 1 year ago

So, today is Draft Day. And, I'm still passed off. I feel like that expression "All dressed up, but, nowhere to go."
Roger has punished the owner, team and QB. He probably would punish the fans, if he could.

In the Sour Grapes Dept., I hope every late first round draft pick is a total bust.
0 x

User avatar
ATPTourFan
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 9101
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Wakefield, RI
x 758
Contact:

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ATPTourFan » 1 year ago

adam914 wrote:
TruePoint wrote:You do not strike me as the type of person who doesn't believe in science. What's up?


You are correct there for sure in that I am not the type of person who doesn't believe in science, but from what I have seen, while the science behind it may prove that it is possible to replicate what happened it doesn't necessarily prove that it is exactly what happened in this case. In my opinion, the behavior of some of the Patriots personnel involved after the fact tells a lot about there being something more going on.


This way of thinking is working in reverse -- trying to find loose fitting circumstantial evidence to support a claim that is in essence unsubstantiated or straight debunked by independently verifiable science.

Normally, there is a verifiable "Crime" such as someone robbing a bank or a murder or some other clear breaking of the rules. Then you'd try to find all the evidence leading to the crime. In the case of Deflategate, the crime itself doesn't exist, but many love conspiracies and look for loosely fitting circumstantial evidence to build some case to support the non-crime.

Had the NFL not been completely ignorant of science, even their sloppy half time measurements would have made sense the day of the game. Instead, they WERE completely ignorant of science and made up their mind based on ignorance and then worked backwards to find any kind of evidence of wrongdoing.

There was no wrongdoing. Even if the NFL wanted to convince its ignorant leadership that there was, the penalty should be in line with other equipment violations where players/clubs have been advised of the penalty/punishment schedule.

By the way, there is factual evidence of wrongdoing by the NFL since the Colts game that further supports this entire thing is manufactured. Compared to whatever behavior you are referring to by the Patriots following the AFC Championship game, the NFL's actions can be proven to indicate a willingness to mislead, misrepresent, and straight up lie.
0 x

User avatar
Seawrightspostgame
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2717
Joined: 4 years ago
x 289

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby Seawrightspostgame » 1 year ago

NFL should deliver a Super Bowl to be held at Foxboro for raking the Pats through all of this.
0 x
I just think this team has an identity now. - Tue Feb 21, 2017

User avatar
adam914
Tyson Wheeler
Posts: 5574
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Carlsbad, CA
x 802

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby adam914 » 1 year ago

ATPTourFan wrote:
adam914 wrote:
TruePoint wrote:You do not strike me as the type of person who doesn't believe in science. What's up?


You are correct there for sure in that I am not the type of person who doesn't believe in science, but from what I have seen, while the science behind it may prove that it is possible to replicate what happened it doesn't necessarily prove that it is exactly what happened in this case. In my opinion, the behavior of some of the Patriots personnel involved after the fact tells a lot about there being something more going on.


This way of thinking is working in reverse -- trying to find loose fitting circumstantial evidence to support a claim that is in essence unsubstantiated or straight debunked by independently verifiable science.

Normally, there is a verifiable "Crime" such as someone robbing a bank or a murder or some other clear breaking of the rules. Then you'd try to find all the evidence leading to the crime. In the case of Deflategate, the crime itself doesn't exist, but many love conspiracies and look for loosely fitting circumstantial evidence to build some case to support the non-crime.

Had the NFL not been completely ignorant of science, even their sloppy half time measurements would have made sense the day of the game. Instead, they WERE completely ignorant of science and made up their mind based on ignorance and then worked backwards to find any kind of evidence of wrongdoing.

There was no wrongdoing. Even if the NFL wanted to convince its ignorant leadership that there was, the penalty should be in line with other equipment violations where players/clubs have been advised of the penalty/punishment schedule.

By the way, there is factual evidence of wrongdoing by the NFL since the Colts game that further supports this entire thing is manufactured. Compared to whatever behavior you are referring to by the Patriots following the AFC Championship game, the NFL's actions can be proven to indicate a willingness to mislead, misrepresent, and straight up lie.


Look all I am saying is that there is a way that innocent people act and a way that guilty people act when accused of wrongdoing, and in my opinion some of the Patriots personnel acted very strangely for people who claim to have done nothing wrong. I understand that for you Pats fans this is a topic that makes you very passionate and you feel very strongly about. When it comes down to it, as I said earlier, I don't care all that much and think it had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of any games and the fact that it has turned into such a big deal is pretty dumb.

So they messed with the air in a couple footballs, who cares, it means nothing.
0 x
"This is who we are now. Seniors will graduate and the next guys are going to step up." - Dan Hurley - March 12, 2017

User avatar
SmartyBarrett
Cuttino Mobley
Posts: 1654
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Boston
x 86
Contact:

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby SmartyBarrett » 1 year ago

adam914 wrote:Look all I am saying is that there is a way that innocent people act and a way that guilty people act when accused of wrongdoing, and in my opinion some of the Patriots personnel acted very strangely for people who claim to have done nothing wrong.


I don't disagree with this. However, this is pretty much all the evidence the NFL has, which is to say they have no evidence whatsoever. And other teams are (finally) realizing what this means and panicking. Because it's becoming abundantly clear that Goodell can just decide he doesn't like [insert owner/team/player] and cook up a witch hunt to punish him/them. This ruling has granted him unilateral power to do whatever he wants.
0 x

User avatar
adam914
Tyson Wheeler
Posts: 5574
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Carlsbad, CA
x 802

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby adam914 » 1 year ago

SmartyBarrett wrote:
adam914 wrote:Look all I am saying is that there is a way that innocent people act and a way that guilty people act when accused of wrongdoing, and in my opinion some of the Patriots personnel acted very strangely for people who claim to have done nothing wrong.


I don't disagree with this. However, this is pretty much all the evidence the NFL has, which is to say they have no evidence whatsoever. And other teams are (finally) realizing what this means and panicking. Because it's becoming abundantly clear that Goodell can just decide he doesn't like [insert owner/team/player] and cook up a witch hunt to punish him/them. This ruling has granted him unilateral power to do whatever he wants.


Right, but that's the thing about the NFL, they can basically do whatever the hell they want and get away with it. It's stupid, but that's the way it works. You're right that other teams are finally realizing what this means, but the owners have just as much culpability in letting it get to that point I think.
0 x
"This is who we are now. Seniors will graduate and the next guys are going to step up." - Dan Hurley - March 12, 2017

User avatar
NYGFan_Section208
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2651
Joined: 1 year ago
Location: CT Transplant
x 339

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 1 year ago

ATPTourFan wrote:
adam914 wrote:
TruePoint wrote:You do not strike me as the type of person who doesn't believe in science. What's up?


You are correct there for sure in that I am not the type of person who doesn't believe in science, but from what I have seen, while the science behind it may prove that it is possible to replicate what happened it doesn't necessarily prove that it is exactly what happened in this case. In my opinion, the behavior of some of the Patriots personnel involved after the fact tells a lot about there being something more going on.


This way of thinking is working in reverse -- trying to find loose fitting circumstantial evidence to support a claim that is in essence unsubstantiated or straight debunked by independently verifiable science.

Normally, there is a verifiable "Crime" such as someone robbing a bank or a murder or some other clear breaking of the rules. Then you'd try to find all the evidence leading to the crime. In the case of Deflategate, the crime itself doesn't exist, but many love conspiracies and look for loosely fitting circumstantial evidence to build some case to support the non-crime.

Had the NFL not been completely ignorant of science, even their sloppy half time measurements would have made sense the day of the game. Instead, they WERE completely ignorant of science and made up their mind based on ignorance and then worked backwards to find any kind of evidence of wrongdoing.

There was no wrongdoing. Even if the NFL wanted to convince its ignorant leadership that there was, the penalty should be in line with other equipment violations where players/clubs have been advised of the penalty/punishment schedule.

By the way, there is factual evidence of wrongdoing by the NFL since the Colts game that further supports this entire thing is manufactured. Compared to whatever behavior you are referring to by the Patriots following the AFC Championship game, the NFL's actions can be proven to indicate a willingness to mislead, misrepresent, and straight up lie.


The fact that the PSI could change - as noted by 'science' - does not 'straight debunk' the idea that those cheating (looking for an edge) Patriots didn't do something.... I wonder, if it were Joe Flacco or Ben R being accused, if Pat's fans would give a Pats arse....and, be talking about that cruel, lying, misleading NFL? Or, would they just be saying, 'yep, he did it...got caught...now he has to pay' ?
0 x

Billyboy78
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 7722
Joined: 4 years ago
x 545

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby Billyboy78 » 1 year ago

I don't think the NFL is ignorant of the science in this case. I think it's exactly the opposite, at least now. Before the season, they stated that they were going to randomly test PSIs of balls. Now Goodell claims that they did not do it. Obviously, another lie. You're going to spend 20 million on this case and not do the one thing that you think can prove your case? There's only one reason that data is not being released. It proved that Tom Brady did nothing wrong. Show us the results, Rog!
0 x

ramfan85
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2776
Joined: 4 years ago
x 199

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 1 year ago

Roger BADell is a piece of shit.
0 x

User avatar
ATPTourFan
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 9101
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Wakefield, RI
x 758
Contact:

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ATPTourFan » 1 year ago

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:
ATPTourFan wrote:
This way of thinking is working in reverse -- trying to find loose fitting circumstantial evidence to support a claim that is in essence unsubstantiated or straight debunked by independently verifiable science.

Normally, there is a verifiable "Crime" such as someone robbing a bank or a murder or some other clear breaking of the rules. Then you'd try to find all the evidence leading to the crime. In the case of Deflategate, the crime itself doesn't exist, but many love conspiracies and look for loosely fitting circumstantial evidence to build some case to support the non-crime.

Had the NFL not been completely ignorant of science, even their sloppy half time measurements would have made sense the day of the game. Instead, they WERE completely ignorant of science and made up their mind based on ignorance and then worked backwards to find any kind of evidence of wrongdoing.

There was no wrongdoing. Even if the NFL wanted to convince its ignorant leadership that there was, the penalty should be in line with other equipment violations where players/clubs have been advised of the penalty/punishment schedule.

By the way, there is factual evidence of wrongdoing by the NFL since the Colts game that further supports this entire thing is manufactured. Compared to whatever behavior you are referring to by the Patriots following the AFC Championship game, the NFL's actions can be proven to indicate a willingness to mislead, misrepresent, and straight up lie.


The fact that the PSI could change - as noted by 'science' - does not 'straight debunk' the idea that those cheating (looking for an edge) Patriots didn't do something.... I wonder, if it were Joe Flacco or Ben R being accused, if Pat's fans would give a Pats arse....and, be talking about that cruel, lying, misleading NFL? Or, would they just be saying, 'yep, he did it...got caught...now he has to pay' ?


So we know what the footballs should have been measured at halftime based on repeatable, independently verifiable science. The NFL's own sloppy before-and-after measurements of Patriots footballs came to an average of 0.3psi per ball below the scientifically predicted level. That is well within the margin of error for such sloppy procedure pre-game and during the hasty halftime sting operation.

Do you believe 0.3psi is
1) noticeable by anyone on the planet,
2) unfair on-field advantage such as stickum,
3) possible for the guy to take out that little air equally across all the 24 footballs in a bathroom in a minute plus
0 x

User avatar
ATPTourFan
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 9101
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Wakefield, RI
x 758
Contact:

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ATPTourFan » 1 year ago

adam914 wrote:Look all I am saying is that there is a way that innocent people act and a way that guilty people act when accused of wrongdoing, and in my opinion some of the Patriots personnel acted very strangely for people who claim to have done nothing wrong. I understand that for you Pats fans this is a topic that makes you very passionate and you feel very strongly about. When it comes down to it, as I said earlier, I don't care all that much and think it had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of any games and the fact that it has turned into such a big deal is pretty dumb.

So they messed with the air in a couple footballs, who cares, it means nothing.


Hi Adam, can you please give a few specifics that would bring us all closer to a level of certainty here and validate this unprecedented punishment?

Per your statement above, this had no outcome of any games YET this 4 game suspension and loss of draft picks certainly WILL have a real impact. How is that OK? You can't have it both ways. If your team was punished for nothing (and now we know it can be), are you saying you would just roll with it?
0 x

User avatar
RhowdyRam02
Carlton Owens
Posts: 3463
Joined: 4 years ago
x 707

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 1 year ago

What I keep coming back to is there is video proof of footballs being heated on the sidelines (tampering with football air pressure) in Minnesota a few weeks before the AFC Championship game that started this Deflategate nonsense and it generated no punishment and there is no proof the Patriots tampered with footballs and we lost a 1st, a 4th, and Brady is suspended 4 games.
0 x
“We’re going to get better in the future. Coach Hurley’s history speaks for itself. I came here because I wanted to be part of his program, to help get things rolling, to help build a program," E.C. Matthews

User avatar
adam914
Tyson Wheeler
Posts: 5574
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Carlsbad, CA
x 802

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby adam914 » 1 year ago

ATPTourFan wrote:
adam914 wrote:Look all I am saying is that there is a way that innocent people act and a way that guilty people act when accused of wrongdoing, and in my opinion some of the Patriots personnel acted very strangely for people who claim to have done nothing wrong. I understand that for you Pats fans this is a topic that makes you very passionate and you feel very strongly about. When it comes down to it, as I said earlier, I don't care all that much and think it had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of any games and the fact that it has turned into such a big deal is pretty dumb.

So they messed with the air in a couple footballs, who cares, it means nothing.


Hi Adam, can you please give a few specifics that would bring us all closer to a level of certainty here and validate this unprecedented punishment?

Per your statement above, this had no outcome of any games YET this 4 game suspension and loss of draft picks certainly WILL have a real impact. How is that OK? You can't have it both ways. If your team was punished for nothing (and now we know it can be), are you saying you would just roll with it?


I don't think I ever said anything about the punishment being valid or ok at all. I've said from the start I think the whole thing is really stupid. I don't know if there are specifics that could bring anyone to a level of certainty about what happened. If there was, I am sure it would have been released by now. All I have said is that it is my opinion that some Patriots personnel acted very strange after the fact for people that were supposedly innocent of any wrongdoing. So in my opinion, there was likely something shady going on.

If they had just slapped them with a fine or a loss of a 7th round pick or something small like that I would have thought that was fine. My team, the Falcons, got punished for pumping in fake crowd noise, lost a 5th round pick and fined $350,000. So whatever, that's fine, no big deal in my eyes. They admitted they did something dumb, the higher ups claim they didn't know anything about it, they took their slap on the wrist and everybody moved on. The Patriots chose a different style of reaction and are now dealing with the backlash of an NFL regime that can simply do whatever the hell they want with impunity.

I understand you don't think the Pats did anything wrong at all, so of course you won't agree that maybe they should have acted differently from the start. I get that, and I don't expect to change your mind or think anything I say will make you think any differently about that. And that's fine, just a difference of opinion.
0 x
"This is who we are now. Seniors will graduate and the next guys are going to step up." - Dan Hurley - March 12, 2017

User avatar
NYGFan_Section208
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2651
Joined: 1 year ago
Location: CT Transplant
x 339

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 1 year ago

Dumb rule, dumb penalty, but I still think Pats fan reaction if it was another team would be:
They did it, they got busted...good...whatever...can we stop talking about it yet?

Which is likely the way the majority of the world feels about this...
0 x

ramfan85
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2776
Joined: 4 years ago
x 199

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 11 months ago

Well, the appeal process is finally over. Jimmy G. for Four games.
Now we can concentrate on our hatred for Roger.
0 x

User avatar
NYGFan_Section208
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2651
Joined: 1 year ago
Location: CT Transplant
x 339

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 11 months ago

'letter from Peyton' .. "I just want you to know, I think of you like a brother...a brother who lost to my other brother all the time.." :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just glad it's over with...next to no impact on the season.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo0Pm1EHTnM
0 x

ramfan85
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2776
Joined: 4 years ago
x 199

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 10 months ago

Great start to this season. Looks like the "Curse of Brady" has begun. PAINTGATE.
0 x

User avatar
NYGFan_Section208
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2651
Joined: 1 year ago
Location: CT Transplant
x 339

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 9 months ago

Just going to throw this out there - as a non-Pats fan...
Is Bill B the best coach of anything, anywhere, ever?
0 x

ramfan85
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2776
Joined: 4 years ago
x 199

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 9 months ago

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:Just going to throw this out there - as a non-Pats fan...
Is Bill B the best coach of anything, anywhere, ever?



He's right up there. And, to show his versatility, next week he'll be playing quarterback.
0 x

User avatar
NYGFan_Section208
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2651
Joined: 1 year ago
Location: CT Transplant
x 339

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 9 months ago

ramfan85 wrote:
NYGFan_Section208 wrote:Just going to throw this out there - as a non-Pats fan...
Is Bill B the best coach of anything, anywhere, ever?



He's right up there. And, to show his versatility, next week he'll be playing quarterback.


Nah, no need to risk getting hit by one of those big uglies, when he could win with me or you at qb...
0 x

User avatar
Rhodymob05
Cuttino Mobley
Posts: 1869
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Rhode Island
x 261

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby Rhodymob05 » 9 months ago

Without thinking about it too much, yes he's the best ever. Other coaches that come to mind, but I'm sticking with Billy on this one.
0 x
RHODE ISLAND RAMS 2017 A10 CHAMPS

User avatar
rjsuperfly66
Cuttino Mobley
Posts: 1611
Joined: 4 years ago
x 87

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 9 months ago

Of anything ever?
That's a great question ...
I think football coaches have to be up there by default, they have to have their finger on every aspect of the game, development to individual schemes to preparation to in-game adjustments, etc.
No other sport requires that, professional basketball is about managing egos, baseball mostly requires pre-game prep, hockey there is some schemes but don't think nearly the amount of football.
Belichick was bad in Cleveland, so I think it's easy for detractors to point to that and what he did pre-Brady (41-57, 1 winning season to 5 losing seasons) and knock on him there.
Did he cost himself a SB in 2006, by thinking Brady could do it all with less pieces?
He won in 2008 but didn't really win any of the big games on the schedule which was a big part of them missing the playoffs (digging a hole in conference that had them losing many tiebreakers).
He also went several years from about 09-12 (before Talib) where he struggled to put together a competent defense despite being a "defensive mastermind. "
Despite that, his teams were almost consistently in a position to win a championship.
Since 2001, 4 championships, 6 SB appearances, 10 AFC championship games, 13 playoff appearances.
It's an unprecedented run.
But does he have to do it without Brady to be considered the GOAT of any sport?
Bill Parcells for example ... At least .500 with 4 different teams... 2 time-SB winner with Giants, took the Pats to the 1996 SB, took the Jets to the 98 AFC Champ game in Denver, I believe his last game was the Tony Romo fumbled snap game in Seattle in the playoffs that cost them a win.
Parcells has 4 former assistants as current HC's in the NFL, his coaching tree has produced 7 NFL Championships between Belichick, Coughlin, and Sean Payton.
Does Belichick even have a playoff win out of his coaching tree?
Not that it's a huge deal, but an interesting point of contrast.
0 x

User avatar
NYGFan_Section208
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2651
Joined: 1 year ago
Location: CT Transplant
x 339

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 9 months ago

The Jints fan in me likes the Tuna reference...graci!
0 x

ramfan85
Carlton Owens
Posts: 2776
Joined: 4 years ago
x 199

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 8 months ago

3-1
0 x

User avatar
Rhodymob05
Cuttino Mobley
Posts: 1869
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: Rhode Island
x 261

Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby Rhodymob05 » 8 months ago

I'll take 3-1 with the starting QB suspended, the second string with a shoulder injury and the third playing with a hurt thumb. Back to BradyVille this week!
0 x
RHODE ISLAND RAMS 2017 A10 CHAMPS


Return to “All Pro Sports”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest