The Patriot Way

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rambone 78
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rambone 78 » 1 year ago

Brady will likely be a little rusty this week but won't matter against the Brownies.......
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby Billyboy78 » 1 year ago

rambone 78 wrote:Brady will likely be a little rusty this week but won't matter against the Brownies.......

Yeah, probably only about 375 yards and 3 TDs...
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rambone 78 » 1 year ago

Tell you what, boys and girls...the NE at Buffalo game in a couple of weeks is going to be a doozy....can someone finally knock the Pats off their perch?

I'm no Pats fan, but I think NE will win it...with Gronk back at 100% I think he's the difference......plus losing TWICE to Rex Ryan in one year, plus possibly losing the division to him down the road?

If I'm Belicheck, I doubt he's going to let that happen.......should be fun to watch....
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 1 year ago

rambone 78 wrote:Tell you what, boys and girls...the NE at Buffalo game in a couple of weeks is going to be a doozy....can someone finally knock the Pats off their perch?

I'm no Pats fan, but I think NE will win it...with Gronk back at 100% I think he's the difference......plus losing TWICE to Rex Ryan in one year, plus possibly losing the division to him down the road?

If I'm Belicheck, I doubt he's going to let that happen.......should be fun to watch....



They could easily lose to the Bills in two weeks. Next week at Pitt is no picnic either.
It's obvious that the offense has to keep scoring to win. The defense has been disappointing to date.
They adjusted well today by applying more pressure and taking Logan Ryan off Green. He just can't cover the best receiver without help. But, it's still early.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 1 year ago

Just saw Big Ben is having surgery tomorrow. Out 4-6 weeks, at least. Should help the Pats next week.
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rambone 78
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rambone 78 » 1 year ago

More great timing for the Pats.......
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 1 year ago

Every year I feel like the quality of play in the NFL gets worse and worse, maybe it's parity, maybe it's not, but I'm glad they've kicked the can on playoff expansion given the lack of noteworthy teams in each conference. NFL playoff structure is just about perfect as is (only quibble could be the 4/5 when an 8-8 team wins it's division and an 11-5 team has to travel), but other than that, it gives an advantage to finishing Top 2 regular season which gives the top teams in each conference a good shot of facing off in the conference championship game which is exactly what every sports needs.

Are the Patriots lucky, or is it because outside of the Colts/Broncos/Steelers/Ravens, teams have consistently struggled to build competitive teams in the conference in the last 15 years? And even of those teams, many of them have often had some dead periods.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 1 year ago

The NFL has become more and more about backups. Injuries seem to be increasing every year. People are paying more attention to later round draft picks now. Those, and the free agents that never excite fans, are the keys to success these days.
The Pats may be the best at bringing in people that the "experts" don't know about but end up contributing in a big way.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 1 year ago

That's true but I think more than ever it continues to be about the passing game, and more specifically QB play. A good/great QB masks a lot of depth issues, you need a very good defense to be a SB contender but teams that don't have the QB play tend to struggle to find success across the board.

And in terms of depth, even on the Patriots, their average defensive starter has a high draft round (and I think defense you can find more use in "value" than offense because you can use more guys situationally) ... Their average starter was drafted between between the 2nd and 3rd rounds ... Go across the board (some of these guys obviously weren't drafted by the Pats) ...

1st Round
Long
Brown
Hightower
McCourty
Mingo *Backup
McClellin *Backup

2nd Round
Branch
Sheard
Collins
Chung
Jones *Backup
Richards *Backup
Rowe *Backup

3rd Round
Ryan
Harmon *Backup
Valentine *Backup

4th Round
Flowers *Backup

5th Round
Ninkovich

6th Round
Roberts
Ebner *Backup

Undrafted
Butler
Johnson *Backup
Coleman *Backup

They have guys who have hit from later rounds, but I'd say they are hardly scrounging, most of their core players are higher draft picks.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 1 year ago

Good points. You put some work into breaking down the players. Good job.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 1 year ago

Well I think Belichick has created the illusion that his "value" approach is a smart one because he has hit on some late-round prospects (or undrafted guys) like Brady, Edelman, or Butler, but I do believe many of those stabilizing pieces they have are a result of the talent they possess when the enter the league that Belichick either develops when they get to New England or he helps unlock when they are signed/traded here. Just look at the 2011 secondary... Devin McCourty - 1st, Patrick Chung - 2nd, Antwaun Molden - 3rd, Nate Jones - 7th, Malcolm Williams - 7th, Kyle Arrington - Undrafted, James Ihedibo - Undrafted, Sergio Brown - Undrafted, Sterling Moore - Undrafted.

Also in that starting lineup for the SB were guys like Brandon Deadrick (7th round), Tracy White (undrafted), Kyle Love (undrafted). Giants only put up 23 points, but were 5/11 on 3rd down, 30/40 passing, outpossed 38 minutes to 22, etc. Sometimes Belichick can give the illusion that his defense is playing good, because they might not always give up the most points (because they typically don't give up big plays), but at times there is a little bit of "death by a 1,000 papercuts," which I think is a direct result sometimes of just not having enough talent on the field, regardless of the "depth" they have.

While I think injuries being up certainly haven't helped the product on the field, the Patriots have still struggled through their fair share and still look representative of a real football team week in and out. Just look at the first 4 games this year without Brady ... Is it a talent issue with the rest of the league? Or coaches who often don't have a clue or can't mix it up? Even yesterday, the Pats ran the same play over and over on the goalline, I think they went 3/3 with 3 TD's with Gronk and White running the same patterns. Cincy kept the LB's on White, over and over again.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby SGreenwell » 1 year ago

re: The draft, I think the Patriots have mostly "figured out" that it's best to maximize the number of picks you have, vs. trading up because you fall in love with a player. The latter sometimes works out, but it's almost always better to trade down. It's REALLY hard to evaluate how players are going to transition from college to NFL, and while you generally know that a first round player will be better than second, and second better than third, etc., it's hard to individually determine who be better. So, while you wouldn't want to have 10 fourth round picks in one draft, it's definitely better to trade, say, 1-10 for 1-30 this year and 2-X next year or this year.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 1 year ago

rambone 78 wrote:More great timing for the Pats.......


It certainly should make things easier with Landry at qb, but Brady has always owned the Steelers. He's 8-2 lifetime against them, 6-2 against Big Ben, and 4-1 against Tomlin. We just match up really well against them.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 1 year ago

Looks like the Pats are doing everything they can to keep Pitt. In this game. Brandon Bolden?
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 1 year ago

The Patriots defense has not looked great. They've been decent because they've often kept teams out of the end zone, ut they have given up long drives with consistency all season long. If they can sustain it, great I guess. I just don't know what will happen when they run into a legit QB who can sit and not panic and pick them apart.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 1 year ago

rjsuperfly66 wrote:The Patriots defense has not looked great. They've been decent because they've often kept teams out of the end zone, ut they have given up long drives with consistency all season long. If they can sustain it, great I guess. I just don't know what will happen when they run into a legit QB who can sit and not panic and pick them apart.



I agree. I know the style the defense is playing has worked, but, I'm concerned about giving the qb so much time to find an open receiver. Any NFL receiver will eventually get open.
If you watch the whole game, it seems like they're giving up about 30points. But, in their two worst games they only gave up 16. Very deceiving.

At this point, I'm more concerned with the offensive line. They've been terrible, especially up the middle.
Brady can adjust to an outside rush. He steps up into the pocket. Andrews and Mason have been very bad.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 1 year ago

ramfan85 wrote:
rjsuperfly66 wrote:The Patriots defense has not looked great. They've been decent because they've often kept teams out of the end zone, ut they have given up long drives with consistency all season long. If they can sustain it, great I guess. I just don't know what will happen when they run into a legit QB who can sit and not panic and pick them apart.



I agree. I know the style the defense is playing has worked, but, I'm concerned about giving the qb so much time to find an open receiver. Any NFL receiver will eventually get open.
If you watch the whole game, it seems like they're giving up about 30points. But, in their two worst games they only gave up 16. Very deceiving.

At this point, I'm more concerned with the offensive line. They've been terrible, especially up the middle.
Brady can adjust to an outside rush. He steps up into the pocket. Andrews and Mason have been very bad.


Agree, and you would think that if 7-8 guys are consistently in coverage, the windows for these passes would be minimal, but several times a game it feels there is a guy that has 2 or 3 steps on a guy. But if the team is going to consistently give up the short stuff, I guess I'd rather see them bring 5+ with more regularity and try to force a mistake, then bring 3 and rarely force a miscue. Of their 9 takeaways, 4 came against Miami and 3 came against Houston. Against the good teams on their schedule: Arizona (0 turnovers, 3 sacks), Buffalo (0 turnovers, 2 sacks), Cincinnati (0 turnovers, 2 sacks), Pittsburgh (1 turnover, 0 sacks). I didn't include Houston because frankly I don't think their very good and 3 of their wins have been against the bottom of the league in Tennessee, Indy, and Chicago, and the only 3 good teams they've played (KC, Minnesota, NE), they've been outscored by 38 points. I do get worry the Pats will face a QB willing to take the run when it's present, take the short pass that's open, and be able to make the plays in the red zone when it gets a little congested, and if they have a defense capable of disrupting the Patriots, that could be the recipe that dooms them. I know BB is big on results are more important than stats, but eventually if all your stats are mediocre, chances are you come back to where you belong versus defying the numbers.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ATPTourFan » 1 year ago

Prediction for Sunday:

► Show Spoiler
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 1 year ago

Jamie Collins traded to the browns for a third. Can't say I get it, but they don't normally mess these kind of trades up
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 1 year ago

The comments on ESPN.com say that Collins wanted Von Miller eque money, so around 6 years, $100 million.
I agree he's not that kind of player, but he was at least a very good piece on a defense hoping to be competitive for a Super Bowl.
While I find the irony in "I don't think you're that good, so have fun on the 0-8 Cleveland Browns while we head down the road towards another Super Bowl," it makes me wonder two things:
1) Was it an FU to Collins for having insane expectations?
2) Were there better offers out there but BB was afraid to trade him to a potential future playoff opponent?
People thought the Pats traded low on Jones, and he got a 2nd and a former 1st round player.
I know Collins is only providing a half season of value, but I also thought he was a better overall player.
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rambone 78
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rambone 78 » 1 year ago

The Pats will not pay moon money for any player when it comes to long term deals....they've been very fortunate that Brady takes less money than he's worth because his wife makes huge money....so they can spend more on quality depth...

Wait a few years, either Gronk takes less money or he's bye bye too......

The Pats will win until Belicheck retires.....their organization is the best in the NFL by far.....my guess is BB and TB leave together....
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 1 year ago

The organization has been great because of exceptional QB play ... BB struggled for many years after the early SB runs to build a competent defense ... From 08 to roughly 12 they were among the bottom of the league in nearly every category and you could argue that cost them a SB ... Then he went from Talib to Revis/Browner to Butler and had the young core of Hightower/Collins/Jones which helped. Their defense is statistically ok this year, but the Patriots "bend don't break" defense hasn't won them a SB before, and I fear this year they'll run into the same result by running into a QB who isn't afraid to take the short pass, accurate enough to do so, and a defense that can slow down the Patriots just enough to keep them in the game. Collins hasn't been great this season because of injury and what not, but when healthy, he was another defensive playmaker on a team that really doesn't have many. I know the Patriots don't believe in selling out to force turnovers, but they are among the bottom of the league in forced turnovers. They are among the middle in sacks. They are 3rd in PPG but 20th in yards allowed, 21st in plays over 20+ yards, and 17th in 3rd down defense. So the lock down when they need to ... Is that sustainable? Or have they been lucky to play QB's who puke down their jerseys when they get in a position to strike? If you look at the QBR of QB's they've played, Taylor ranks 7th (2 games), Dalton ranks 12th, Palmer ranks 23rd, Kessler ranks 24th (and obviously there were backups after him), Osweiler ranks 29th, Tannehill ranks 30th, and then if you jump into the unqualified rankings, Landry Jones ranks 47th. Not exactly murderers row. In all fairness, there are not many QB's capable of taking advantage of this, but there are at least a few who may be able to do some damage.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 1 year ago

Well, the Jones trade was a giveaway. They cut Cooper after never playing a down and traded the draft pick down, as usual. They could use him this year. They might have actually gotten to a qb some time.
They could have kept him for this season and then let him go elsewhere. They would have gotten a compensatory pick. The same with Collins for this year. The pick from Cleveland may be a 4th.
This defense is weaker now. I feel there's more to each of these deals than we know.
I agree with superfly about this defense. They can't continue to play this playback system all year and expect to beat good teams.
If you watch the games, it feels like the defense is giving up 30+ points a game. But, when you look at the box scores after the games, the numbers are pretty good.
I'm hearing the secondary is upset with the schemes they're being told to play. They want more.man to man.
It would be nice if the offense didn't have to keep scoring to win.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 1 year ago

I think the scheme has been "These QB's suck so play conservative and let them make plays."
I don't think it would look so bad if they got any resemblance of pressure on the QB.
When you play soft and continually allow the QB to move around for 3-5 seconds (and then some), I think the secondary looks worse than it really is.
I feel they are at their best when they bring 5 guys (with some LB pressure) and at least force the QB to think.
It feels like every time they sent Hightower or Collins at the QB, they at least collapsed the pocket or provided pressure.
Let's be honest, this gameplan worked better last year with Jones, who at least could occasionally pressure the QB out of base defense.
I feel when the field gets smaller in the red zone, BB feels more comfortable bringing pressure, knowing there is not as much room to operate over the top, which is why their points allowed is small in comparison to yards gained.
But eventually I don't think they'll get that lucky.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 1 year ago

Pats about to say good bye to some more defensive players. Alan Branch just got suspended for four games for failing another drug test for pot.
Sheard,who was a healthy scratch yesterday, sent out a tweet yesterday saying he was enjoying being at the Celtics game while the team was playing.
This defense is imploding.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby Rhody74 » 1 year ago

Too bad. I thought Branch had been playing well.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 1 year ago

Go Giants...
Not sure why there's suspensions for pot. No one ever said, "that guy seems to be playing so well...he must be baked."
If the teams want to suspend, fine...

Deflated football crisis is another silly one...they want to encourage offense...and they let the teams use their own balls. So, since everyone is not using the same ball to begin with...Who cares how inflated they are or not? Why is that even a rule? Let them use whatever they want...

GO G-men...5 in a row!!!
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rambone 78 » 1 year ago

208, you are in the Pats' thread...ha ha...keep the Giants stuff to the Giants thread, you and I are about the only posters on it anyway!
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 1 year ago

Watching the Pats today is making me sick.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 1 year ago

ramfan85 wrote:Watching the Pats today is making me sick.


Good! ;)
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 1 year ago

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:
ramfan85 wrote:Watching the Pats today is making me sick.


Good! ;)



Thanks for all the cards and letters. Feeling a little better now. May get sick again when I see the defense next week, however. Lol
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby Billyboy78 » 11 months ago

Looks like Gronk is done for the year.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 11 months ago

Billyboy78 wrote:Looks like Gronk is done for the year.


It appears so. Just heard he's having back surgery tomorrow. From personal experience, I can say that he probably won't be able to make it back this year.
But, at least they locked up Marcus Cannon..........
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 11 months ago

Mark this down...Gronk has played his last game as a Patriot.
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rambone 78
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby rambone 78 » 11 months ago

Not sure about that...he's still young...but the injuries are piling up......if he loses a step or two because of them, he's done.....

Brings the Pats back to the rest of the pack......Brady knows if he's going to win another SB he's got to do it this year......this makes it a lot harder

Belicheck was a fool to try to play hero ball with Gronk early in the Jets game....exposed him to injury and they paid for it.....

Pats were lucky to win that game...made a 4th down by inches...then of course it's the Jets, who haven't scored a TD THIS YEAR in the last 2 minutes of a game.....Fitzpatrick is as unclutch as it gets......
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 11 months ago

I definitely think Gronk will be back next year. He's under contract and should start next season healthy. After next year, who knows?
Why does Brady feel that this is his last chance for a championship? He's not going anywhere any time soon. He looks like he's still got a few good years left.
But, winning a SB doesn't look good for this year. They're a lot easier to defend now. Gronk demands a lot of attention when on the field, even as a decoy. Right now, I think Bennett is the only tight end on the roster. And he's injured.

I have no faith in their defense. None. In spite of the fact that they haven't given up a lot of points, this team just lets teams March up and down the field.
I saw a statistic the other day where every quarterback they've played this year has had their best rating against the Pats.
There is no pass rush and even lousy quarterbacks have enough time to complete passes. No corners and safeties can cover receivers forever. Eventually, they're going to get open. Add the fact that Brady.is always running for his life, it doesn't look good.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 11 months ago

Seems to be agreement that, if Gronk gets healthy and comes back next year..."but after that, who knows?"

My point is...when was the last time Belichik kept someone for their 'after that who knows' year?
Doesn't he usually cut guys loose a year before they're done?
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby SGreenwell » 11 months ago

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:Seems to be agreement that, if Gronk gets healthy and comes back next year..."but after that, who knows?"

My point is...when was the last time Belichik kept someone for their 'after that who knows' year?
Doesn't he usually cut guys loose a year before they're done?

He usually tries to trade them, but I doubt the market is going to be that strong for a tight end with a long injury history coming off back surgery.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 11 months ago

SGreenwell wrote:
NYGFan_Section208 wrote:Seems to be agreement that, if Gronk gets healthy and comes back next year..."but after that, who knows?"

My point is...when was the last time Belichik kept someone for their 'after that who knows' year?
Doesn't he usually cut guys loose a year before they're done?

He usually tries to trade them, but I doubt the market is going to be that strong for a tight end with a long injury history coming off back surgery.


True, but it's not like he always gets perceived real-time value either...look for trade for maybe a couple thirds, fourths...something like that...I think he'll do whatever it takes (regardless of 'market') to prolong the value of that slot with draft picks at least...and not just have him end his career and get nothing.

I don't pay that much attention to them, so someone else might have a ready answer, but when was the last time a really good player finished his career with the Pats?
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 11 months ago

There have been a lot of players, going back in time, who have just played for the team. Jerrod Mayo, Steve Grogan and Steve Nelson, just to name a few. It's not common, however, in this era.

I don't know what the team is going to do to replace Gronk for this year. That had 4 tight ends at the start of the season. I wish they didn't get rid of two of them, especially knowing Gronk's injury situation. Now, they only have Bennett. It's going to change the offense significantly. Wish they didn't trade Derby to Denver.

But, we'll see how far they can go this year.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 11 months ago

ramfan85 wrote:There have been a lot of players, going back in time, who have just played for the team. Jerrod Mayo, Steve Grogan and Steve Nelson, just to name a few. It's not common, however, in this era.

I don't know what the team is going to do to replace Gronk for this year. That had 4 tight ends at the start of the season. I wish they didn't get rid of two of them, especially knowing Gronk's injury situation. Now, they only have Bennett. It's going to change the offense significantly. Wish they didn't trade Derby to Denver.

But, we'll see how far they can go this year.


I guess I should've specified in the Belichik Era. I don't think Bill B lets it happen...Mayo's career ended pretty suddenly, didn't it? and Nelson and Grogan were before Bill, I think. I just don't see the Gronkster suiting up for the Patsies again....

In any event, go Pats...seems that a good Patriots team gives the Giants their best chance at a ring... ;)
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 11 months ago

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:
ramfan85 wrote:There have been a lot of players, going back in time, who have just played for the team. Jerrod Mayo, Steve Grogan and Steve Nelson, just to name a few. It's not common, however, in this era.

I don't know what the team is going to do to replace Gronk for this year. That had 4 tight ends at the start of the season. I wish they didn't get rid of two of them, especially knowing Gronk's injury situation. Now, they only have Bennett. It's going to change the offense significantly. Wish they didn't trade Derby to Denver.

But, we'll see how far they can go this year.


I guess I should've specified in the Belichik Era. I don't think Bill B lets it happen...Mayo's career ended pretty suddenly, didn't it? and Nelson and Grogan were before Bill, I think. I just don't see the Gronkster suiting up for the Patsies again....

In any event, go Pats...seems that a good Patriots team gives the Giants their best chance at a ring... ;)



LOL
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 11 months ago

How the hell is Cyrus Jones on this team. (Mathew Slater just fumbled.) They are giving the Ravens life with these choices.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 11 months ago

Yes
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 11 months ago

Great recovery.
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steveystuds06
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby steveystuds06 » 11 months ago

Great win!!!!
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ATPTourFan
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ATPTourFan » 11 months ago

Indeed.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby SmartyBarrett » 11 months ago



Poor Emmanuel. Show me on the doll where the Patriots hurt you.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby ramfan85 » 11 months ago

Butler has the ability to lay off a receiver so he looks open and close when the ball is in the air. Not every corner can do this. It's a great tool, if you can do it.
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Re: The Patriot Way

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 11 months ago

Really impressive to travel 2/3 of the way across the country on a short week to a place you historically struggle and take care of business like that when Brady had a poor game.
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