Pawsox Sold, Moving to Worcester

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What do you think of the Pawsox sale?

It's bad, and I wish they would stay in Pawtucket.
31
55%
I'm in favor of the team moving to Providence.
15
27%
I'd prefer that the team move to Massachusetts.
4
7%
I don't care.
6
11%
 
Total votes: 56

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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by Rhodymob05 »

SGreenwell wrote:
Rhodymob05 wrote:I see the issues with the funding aspects, although they have been transparent and created some interesting diagrams showing who pays what, and about the possible return on investment. Everything in life is a risk, but it just seems like a good enough deal to me. I just wish people would stop seeing this as "why help a billionaire"....because he can give us what any sports fan wants, a beautiful new stadium so we can continue those same traditions since the early 70s and to give the dying city of Pawtucket a jump start. Not to defend him (luhccino) but I'm pretty sure you're supposed to make money in life.
Pretty much every study on ballparks and stadiums shows that it doesn't have much of an economic impact, though. On game days, sure, you do OK with people in the immediate area. But even MLB teams only play 81 home games, meaning you usually have prime city real estate dormant for the other 180 days (365 minus weekends). The jobs you're creating are usually seasonal or temporary as a result.

I understand there can be a prestige or pride thing associated with having a pro sports team, but if you wanted to actually improve the city, a better option would just be to give the check to Google or Amazon or Good Business Of Your Choice Here, and tell them it's $40M free as long as they stay for X years. (This option usually isn't politically tenable though, whereas in the past it was usually easier to pass or get support for some sort of stadium bond.)

As Ramster points out, RI did this with 38 Studios. I'm not against that, I just kind of wish the state had chosen an established company in a growing industry, instead of giving it a guy with almost no experience in a new field that's incredibly volatile.
This may also help answer some questions, I'm especially excited about the first few bullet points about it being an "park in the park that is accessible year round to the public"
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

I'm really surprised URI fans are in favor of this. I'd love the PawSox to stay if the deal is right, but make no mistake, this stadium is our enemy. When it comes time for URI to request money for Meade, critics will say we can't afford it and the state already has an empty stadium in the fall and they'll point to UConn and UMass and how they play off campus. The only way this stadium helps and doesn't hurt URI is if a powerful legislator is able to include an amendment that includes Meade funding in any bill that gives the PawSox money.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by RF1 »

RhowdyRam02 wrote:I'm really surprised URI fans are in favor of this. I'd love the PawSox to stay if the deal is right, but make no mistake, this stadium is our enemy. When it comes time for URI to request money for Meade, critics will say we can't afford it and the state already has an empty stadium in the fall and they'll point to UConn and UMass and how they play off campus. The only way this stadium helps and doesn't hurt URI is if a powerful legislator is able to include an amendment that includes Meade funding in any bill that gives the PawSox money.

The opposite logic ruled back in the late 1990's when McCoy had its big renovation. The state investment in McCoy was used as leverage FOR the Ryan Center. The argument was that the state must certainly have money for a sports venue for its state university if it had been able to spend some ten million on a sports stadium for a private concern. Some lawmakers were actually shamed into supporting the Ryan Center based on their support for a renovated ballpark.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by ramster »

Paw Sox Final Home Attendance from today's PROJO

Pawtucket’s season attendance finished at 409,960, an average of 6,406 over 64 home dates. That’s a slight uptick from last year’s total of 407,097 — the fewest fans the PawSox had drawn since 1991 — and considerably more than the average of 6,067 over 67 home dates.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by Rhodymob05 »

One less argument against a new stadium. People obviously still love pawsox games. Great to see.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

They're holding one of the hearings at URI. Might not be a bad idea to pack the Swan Auditorium and say what about a new Meade Stadium
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by RF1 »

RhowdyRam02 wrote:They're holding one of the hearings at URI. Might not be a bad idea to pack the Swan Auditorium and say what about a new Meade Stadium

Even better. Move it to Meade Stadium. Make the RI state senators sit in the east stands.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

Right at the top before the press box!
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by RF1 »

It is looking increasingly likely that the Pawsox will be moving to Worcester. I have heard from some people in the know that the team was still receptive to staying until Speaker Mattiello and his House minions altered the Senate bill. Speculation is that team ownership (which includes URI's own Tom Ryan) would need to invest far less toward a stadium as Worcester is willing to offer substantially more than RI (in excess of possibly near tens of millions more than RI).

Interesting that the state was only willing to invest 23M of its own funds (Pawtucket would add its own 15M) for a stadium just ten years after it put 100+ million into the purchase and renovation of the DDC Center in Providence. Event bookings at the two facilities are not even all that different these days given indoor arena concerts are now rare. The two projects however could not have been treated by far more different standards. I guess the City of Pawtucket should have gotten PC to revive its baseball team and play its games at McCoy. Probably would have gotten a lot more from state politicians with them as a tenant.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

RF1 wrote:It is looking increasingly likely that the Pawsox will be moving to Worcester. I have heard from some people in the know that the team was still receptive to staying until Speaker Mattiello and his House minions altered the Senate bill. Speculation is that team ownership (which includes URI's own Tom Ryan) would need to invest far less toward a stadium as Worcester is willing to offer substantially more than RI (in excess of possibly near tens of millions more than RI).

Interesting that the state was only willing to invest 23M of its own funds (Pawtucket would add its own 15M) for a stadium just ten years after it put 100+ million into the purchase and renovation of the DDC Center in Providence. Event bookings at the two facilities are not even all that different these days given indoor arena concerts are now rare. The two projects however could not have been treated by far more different standards. I guess the City of Pawtucket should have gotten PC to revive its baseball team and play its games at McCoy. Probably would have gotten a lot more from state politicians with them as a tenant.
You can’t be serious with that nonsensical take lol
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

RF1 wrote:It is looking increasingly likely that the Pawsox will be moving to Worcester. I have heard from some people in the know that the team was still receptive to staying until Speaker Mattiello and his House minions altered the Senate bill. Speculation is that team ownership (which includes URI's own Tom Ryan) would need to invest far less toward a stadium as Worcester is willing to offer substantially more than RI (in excess of possibly near tens of millions more than RI).

Interesting that the state was only willing to invest 23M of its own funds (Pawtucket would add its own 15M) for a stadium just ten years after it put 100+ million into the purchase and renovation of the DDC Center in Providence. Event bookings at the two facilities are not even all that different these days given indoor arena concerts are now rare. The two projects however could not have been treated by far more different standards. I guess the City of Pawtucket should have gotten PC to revive its baseball team and play its games at McCoy. Probably would have gotten a lot more from state politicians with them as a tenant.
It would probably have a retractable roof already, wouldn't it?
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by RF1 »

rjsuperfly66 wrote:
RF1 wrote:It is looking increasingly likely that the Pawsox will be moving to Worcester. I have heard from some people in the know that the team was still receptive to staying until Speaker Mattiello and his House minions altered the Senate bill. Speculation is that team ownership (which includes URI's own Tom Ryan) would need to invest far less toward a stadium as Worcester is willing to offer substantially more than RI (in excess of possibly near tens of millions more than RI).

Interesting that the state was only willing to invest 23M of its own funds (Pawtucket would add its own 15M) for a stadium just ten years after it put 100+ million into the purchase and renovation of the DDC Center in Providence. Event bookings at the two facilities are not even all that different these days given indoor arena concerts are now rare. The two projects however could not have been treated by far more different standards. I guess the City of Pawtucket should have gotten PC to revive its baseball team and play its games at McCoy. Probably would have gotten a lot more from state politicians with them as a tenant.
You can’t be serious with that nonsensical take lol


Just compare the amount of public money spent with little discussion on the DDC versus the process and offer for a new Pawsox baseball stadium. 100M versus 23M. Facts and actions don't lie.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

RF1 wrote:
rjsuperfly66 wrote:
RF1 wrote:It is looking increasingly likely that the Pawsox will be moving to Worcester. I have heard from some people in the know that the team was still receptive to staying until Speaker Mattiello and his House minions altered the Senate bill. Speculation is that team ownership (which includes URI's own Tom Ryan) would need to invest far less toward a stadium as Worcester is willing to offer substantially more than RI (in excess of possibly near tens of millions more than RI).

Interesting that the state was only willing to invest 23M of its own funds (Pawtucket would add its own 15M) for a stadium just ten years after it put 100+ million into the purchase and renovation of the DDC Center in Providence. Event bookings at the two facilities are not even all that different these days given indoor arena concerts are now rare. The two projects however could not have been treated by far more different standards. I guess the City of Pawtucket should have gotten PC to revive its baseball team and play its games at McCoy. Probably would have gotten a lot more from state politicians with them as a tenant.
You can’t be serious with that nonsensical take lol


Just compare the amount of public money spent with little discussion on the DDC versus the process and offer for a new Pawsox baseball stadium. 100M versus 23M. Facts don't lie.
1 - McCoy was redone in what, 99? I know the price tag wasn’t nearly the same, but still something to acknowledge.

2 - DDC is much more of a multi-purpose facility. PC, P-Bruins, plenty of ice shows, Globetrotters, collegiate tournaments, concerts, etc. What is at McCoy other than the occasional Indy wrestling show, hs championship baseball, or a D level concert?

3 - I know that you along with many friends here have complained about the PC rent situation, but do you know how much the Pawsox pay to play at McCoy? That would be $479 per game. No parking cost to reimburse the city. Pretty sweet gig, huh?
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

I'm really intrigued by what Worcester is offering and how. The Massachusetts legislature said it was unlikely to offer funding and the city previously said they had an aversion to spending money on the project.

At this point I'm assuming they're gone and just waiting as late in the season as possible to announce. After they move to Worcester, Pawtucket would be ineligible to host an affiliated minor league team due to the proximity of Worcester, so who owns Mccoy Stadium and its assets, namely the 10,000 seats and video board. If the state owns them then they can strip the seats and video board and use them at URI as part of renovations to Meade with any extra seats going to Beck. If it's the city that owns it perhaps a deal can be made for those items between Pawtucket, the state and the athletic department that would be beneficial to all parties.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by RF1 »

rjsuperfly66 wrote: DDC is much more of a multi-purpose facility. PC, P-Bruins, plenty of ice shows, Globetrotters, collegiate tournaments, concerts, etc. What is at McCoy other than the occasional Indy wrestling show, hs championship baseball, or a D level concert?

It may surprise you but the number of actual bookings at the venues is fairly close. Just look at what little the DDC had this summer. Concerts are rare at the DDC these days as with most all indoor arenas in secondary cities.

I did some research on this a few months ago:

PawSox Regular Season Home Games: 72

Providence Bruins Regular Season Home Games: 38
PC Friars 2017-18 Regular Season Home games: 18

Regular Season Games for Venue Main Tenants
McCoy Stadium Games: 72
DDC Games: 56


Note: The DDC Center currently had few bookings for the summer months when the main sports tenants had no use of the facility. There were only seven bookings of the venue for the four month span of June through September 2018:
JUNE: CVS Golf Charity June 21-22 (2)
JULY: North East Christian Conference July 20-22 (3)
AUGUST: Banda MS De Sergio Lizaragga Concert August 4 (1)
SEPTEMBER: Thomas Rhett Concert September 20 (1)

Keep in mind that the present McCoy currently hosts other events such as state HS baseball playoffs and occasional concerts and wrestling shows. The plan would be for a new downtown Pawtucket Stadium to host even more of these types of events.


In the end, the number of bookings for the venues is not all that different. The difference certainly does not justify spending 100M in state funds versus 23M.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by RF1 »

RhowdyRam02 wrote:I'm really intrigued by what Worcester is offering and how. The Massachusetts legislature said it was unlikely to offer funding and the city previously said they had an aversion to spending money on the project.

At this point I'm assuming they're gone and just waiting as late in the season as possible to announce. After they move to Worcester, Pawtucket would be ineligible to host an affiliated minor league team due to the proximity of Worcester, so who owns Mccoy Stadium and its assets, namely the 10,000 seats and video board. If the state owns them then they can strip the seats and video board and use them at URI as part of renovations to Meade with any extra seats going to Beck. If it's the city that owns it perhaps a deal can be made for those items between Pawtucket, the state and the athletic department that would be beneficial to all parties.

Having grown up in Pawtucket and gone to school in Worcester, I know the two cities well. I myself find it hard to comprehend where Worcester is getting all this money or how a team there could ever surpass its operations in the larger metro Providence market which has a long history of support for both minor league and college sports (which Worcester is lacking in).

As for McCoy Stadium, it is owned by the City of Pawtucket just as would a new stadium be at the Apex site. It will be another big blow to Pawtucket to lose the team. The city will have lost two of its biggest assets within months that are located just blocks apart along Pond Street (Pawsox and Memorial Hospital). God forbid the state offer incentives to Hasbro for them to leave the city as rumors swirl it desires consolidation in one central facility.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

RF1 wrote:
RhowdyRam02 wrote:I'm really intrigued by what Worcester is offering and how. The Massachusetts legislature said it was unlikely to offer funding and the city previously said they had an aversion to spending money on the project.

At this point I'm assuming they're gone and just waiting as late in the season as possible to announce. After they move to Worcester, Pawtucket would be ineligible to host an affiliated minor league team due to the proximity of Worcester, so who owns Mccoy Stadium and its assets, namely the 10,000 seats and video board. If the state owns them then they can strip the seats and video board and use them at URI as part of renovations to Meade with any extra seats going to Beck. If it's the city that owns it perhaps a deal can be made for those items between Pawtucket, the state and the athletic department that would be beneficial to all parties.
As for McCoy Stadium, it is owned by the City of Pawtucket just as would a new stadium be at the Apex site. It will be another big blow to Pawtucket to lose the team. The city will have lost two of its biggest assets within months that are located just blocks apart along Pond Street (Pawsox and Memorial Hospital). God forbid the state offer incentives to Hasbro for them to leave the city as rumors swirl it desires consolidation in one central facility.
When looking it up Wikipedia said the city owned it, but I thought it was a more complex arrangement where the state had a stake in it. Assuming the city ownership, if the state buys the chairs and video board from the city to use at URI, it would hopefully bring Meade renovation costs lower, give Pawtucket some money to make up for the loss of the team while figuring out what to do with the land, and give the state a tangible return on the subsidy given to the city.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

RF1 wrote:
rjsuperfly66 wrote: DDC is much more of a multi-purpose facility. PC, P-Bruins, plenty of ice shows, Globetrotters, collegiate tournaments, concerts, etc. What is at McCoy other than the occasional Indy wrestling show, hs championship baseball, or a D level concert?

It may surprise you but the number of actual bookings at the venues is fairly close. Just look at what little the DDC had this summer. Concerts are rare at the DDC these days as with most all indoor arenas in secondary cities.

I did some research on this a few months ago:

PawSox Regular Season Home Games: 72

Providence Bruins Regular Season Home Games: 38
PC Friars 2017-18 Regular Season Home games: 18

Regular Season Games for Venue Main Tenants
McCoy Stadium Games: 72
DDC Games: 56


Note: The DDC Center currently had few bookings for the summer months when the main sports tenants had no use of the facility. There were only seven bookings of the venue for the four month span of June through September 2018:
JUNE: CVS Golf Charity June 21-22 (2)
JULY: North East Christian Conference July 20-22 (3)
AUGUST: Banda MS De Sergio Lizaragga Concert August 4 (1)
SEPTEMBER: Thomas Rhett Concert September 20 (1)

Keep in mind that the present McCoy currently hosts other events such as state HS baseball playoffs and occasional concerts and wrestling shows. The plan would be for a new downtown Pawtucket Stadium to host even more of these types of events.


In the end, the number of bookings for the venues is not all that different. The difference certainly does not justify spending 100M in state funds versus 23M.
Rather than looking at strictly number of events I think you need to also look at revenue. I don’t know these numbers but I do know average cost of ticket is much cheaper at McCoy than the DDC. Further the city makes a ton of money on parking for each DDC event. PC and P-Bruins also pay much more per event than the PawSox. PC is paying $32K + $2 per ticket per game. Pawsox pay $34K per year.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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rjsuperfly66 wrote:
RF1 wrote:
rjsuperfly66 wrote: DDC is much more of a multi-purpose facility. PC, P-Bruins, plenty of ice shows, Globetrotters, collegiate tournaments, concerts, etc. What is at McCoy other than the occasional Indy wrestling show, hs championship baseball, or a D level concert?

It may surprise you but the number of actual bookings at the venues is fairly close. Just look at what little the DDC had this summer. Concerts are rare at the DDC these days as with most all indoor arenas in secondary cities.

I did some research on this a few months ago:

PawSox Regular Season Home Games: 72

Providence Bruins Regular Season Home Games: 38
PC Friars 2017-18 Regular Season Home games: 18

Regular Season Games for Venue Main Tenants
McCoy Stadium Games: 72
DDC Games: 56


Note: The DDC Center currently had few bookings for the summer months when the main sports tenants had no use of the facility. There were only seven bookings of the venue for the four month span of June through September 2018:
JUNE: CVS Golf Charity June 21-22 (2)
JULY: North East Christian Conference July 20-22 (3)
AUGUST: Banda MS De Sergio Lizaragga Concert August 4 (1)
SEPTEMBER: Thomas Rhett Concert September 20 (1)

Keep in mind that the present McCoy currently hosts other events such as state HS baseball playoffs and occasional concerts and wrestling shows. The plan would be for a new downtown Pawtucket Stadium to host even more of these types of events.


In the end, the number of bookings for the venues is not all that different. The difference certainly does not justify spending 100M in state funds versus 23M.
Rather than looking at strictly number of events I think you need to also look at revenue. I don’t know these numbers but I do know average cost of ticket is much cheaper at McCoy than the DDC. Further the city makes a ton of money on parking for each DDC event. PC and P-Bruins also pay much more per event than the PawSox. PC is paying $32K + $2 per ticket per game. Pawsox pay $34K per year.

Weak arguments to justify an additional some 80 million more in state funding.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

I'm not trying to justify anything, but I do know that the DDC is a significantly more important venue to the state than McCoy Stadium. How much more important? I don't know. It has nothing to do with PC. It has everything to do with the economic impact of bringing fans into Providence, having them eat/drink at local establishments, visit the local mall, have them pay for parking, and have them eat and pay to enter the venue. If you go to McCoy, you are just at McCoy. You will just eat their food. You will maybe have a few brews. You will not pay for parking (unless private). Outside of baseball, they will attract D-level at best entertainment. You talk about the wrestling events -- The DDC is bringing in the WWE, McCoy is bringing in local independent promotions. The DDC attracts the NCAA Tournaments in both hockey and basketball, McCoy attracts local college talent to play in a USA vs Italy exhibition baseball game. That's why it would have been smart to try to find a place in Providence to put a new baseball stadium.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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The days of the DDC attracting top notch music talent are over. Mohegan ended that for them. Artists now do Mohegan and Boston and dont have a need or the demand for a mid tier market like Providence in their itinerary so close to 2 other venues. When I was growing up PCC got many A list concert tours to come through town, not happening anymore. The circus is also pretty much out of business, another big annual draw. So the idiots in the state house invested 100MM for PC games, P-Bruins and a bunch of C and D level entertainment.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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Three big ticket sports venue projects financially supported by the State of RI since 2000 (Pawsox Stadium currently not looking to likely be acted on).

State funds committed
Ryan Center: 18M (54M Total Cost)
New Pawsox Stadium: 23M (83M Total Cost)
DDC: 100M (100M Total Cost)

Funding
Ryan Center: 33% state/ 28% URI fundraising/ 39% URI Student fees
New Pawsox stadium: 28% state / 18% city of Pawtucket / 54% Pawsox Ownership
DDC: 100% state

Seems that the DDC, far and away the most expensive sports venue project in RI since 2000 was given extremely favorable treatment. Not only was it the most expensive at 100M (77M more than the next), but it was also the only project entirely bankrolled by the state without any other funding sources. The DDC project was administered by the state with completely different standards.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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RF1 wrote:Three big ticket sports venue projects financially supported by the State of RI since 2000 (Pawsox Stadium currently not looking to likely be acted on).

State funds committed
Ryan Center: 18M (54M Total Cost)
New Pawsox Stadium: 23M (83M Total Cost)
DDC: 100M (100M Total Cost)

Funding
Ryan Center: 33% state/ 28% URI fundraising/ 39% URI Student fees
New Pawsox stadium: 28% state / 18% city of Pawtucket / 54% Pawsox Ownership
DDC: 100% state

Seems that the DDC, far and away the most expensive sports venue project in RI since 2000 was given extremely favorable treatment. Not only was it the most expensive at 100M (77M more than the next), but it was also the only project entirely bankrolled by the state without any other funding sources. The DDC project was administered by the state with completely different standards.
Disgusting taxpayers had to pay so much money for the glorified paint job they named a renovation of the dunkin dump.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by rhodyruckus »

RhowdyRam02 wrote:
RF1 wrote:
RhowdyRam02 wrote:I'm really intrigued by what Worcester is offering and how. The Massachusetts legislature said it was unlikely to offer funding and the city previously said they had an aversion to spending money on the project.

At this point I'm assuming they're gone and just waiting as late in the season as possible to announce. After they move to Worcester, Pawtucket would be ineligible to host an affiliated minor league team due to the proximity of Worcester, so who owns Mccoy Stadium and its assets, namely the 10,000 seats and video board. If the state owns them then they can strip the seats and video board and use them at URI as part of renovations to Meade with any extra seats going to Beck. If it's the city that owns it perhaps a deal can be made for those items between Pawtucket, the state and the athletic department that would be beneficial to all parties.
As for McCoy Stadium, it is owned by the City of Pawtucket just as would a new stadium be at the Apex site. It will be another big blow to Pawtucket to lose the team. The city will have lost two of its biggest assets within months that are located just blocks apart along Pond Street (Pawsox and Memorial Hospital). God forbid the state offer incentives to Hasbro for them to leave the city as rumors swirl it desires consolidation in one central facility.
When looking it up Wikipedia said the city owned it, but I thought it was a more complex arrangement where the state had a stake in it. Assuming the city ownership, if the state buys the chairs and video board from the city to use at URI, it would hopefully bring Meade renovation costs lower, give Pawtucket some money to make up for the loss of the team while figuring out what to do with the land, and give the state a tangible return on the subsidy given to the city.
Being involved in a part of the construction industry (but not on the front lines), my general understanding is the cost of getting the seats out of McCoy, shipping them to Meade, and having a contractor certify construction of the "used" seats in a new location would not be much cheaper if any than constructing it new. We used to specify "remove and reset" objects on a lot of our documents, but that work always goes over budget and installing new provides MUCH more cost certainty for the owner.

The video board would probably be the more worthwhile pursuit.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

rhodyruckus wrote:
RhowdyRam02 wrote:
RF1 wrote: As for McCoy Stadium, it is owned by the City of Pawtucket just as would a new stadium be at the Apex site. It will be another big blow to Pawtucket to lose the team. The city will have lost two of its biggest assets within months that are located just blocks apart along Pond Street (Pawsox and Memorial Hospital). God forbid the state offer incentives to Hasbro for them to leave the city as rumors swirl it desires consolidation in one central facility.
When looking it up Wikipedia said the city owned it, but I thought it was a more complex arrangement where the state had a stake in it. Assuming the city ownership, if the state buys the chairs and video board from the city to use at URI, it would hopefully bring Meade renovation costs lower, give Pawtucket some money to make up for the loss of the team while figuring out what to do with the land, and give the state a tangible return on the subsidy given to the city.
Being involved in a part of the construction industry (but not on the front lines), my general understanding is the cost of getting the seats out of McCoy, shipping them to Meade, and having a contractor certify construction of the "used" seats in a new location would not be much cheaper if any than constructing it new. We used to specify "remove and reset" objects on a lot of our documents, but that work always goes over budget and installing new provides MUCH more cost certainty for the owner.

The video board would probably be the more worthwhile pursuit.
Yeah...doesn't seem realistic that moving all of that old stuff would be cost-effective...
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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rhodyruckus wrote:
RhowdyRam02 wrote:
RF1 wrote: As for McCoy Stadium, it is owned by the City of Pawtucket just as would a new stadium be at the Apex site. It will be another big blow to Pawtucket to lose the team. The city will have lost two of its biggest assets within months that are located just blocks apart along Pond Street (Pawsox and Memorial Hospital). God forbid the state offer incentives to Hasbro for them to leave the city as rumors swirl it desires consolidation in one central facility.
When looking it up Wikipedia said the city owned it, but I thought it was a more complex arrangement where the state had a stake in it. Assuming the city ownership, if the state buys the chairs and video board from the city to use at URI, it would hopefully bring Meade renovation costs lower, give Pawtucket some money to make up for the loss of the team while figuring out what to do with the land, and give the state a tangible return on the subsidy given to the city.
Being involved in a part of the construction industry (but not on the front lines), my general understanding is the cost of getting the seats out of McCoy, shipping them to Meade, and having a contractor certify construction of the "used" seats in a new location would not be much cheaper if any than constructing it new. We used to specify "remove and reset" objects on a lot of our documents, but that work always goes over budget and installing new provides MUCH more cost certainty for the owner.

The video board would probably be the more worthwhile pursuit.
Thanks for the insight. I was just throwing out ideas, but after this I guess this is one avenue that's closed
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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There are some rumors out there that McCoy might get another team upon the Pawsox departure. Speculation is that the Woosox ownership would waive the distance exclusion rule and allow a minor league baseball team to replace them in Pawtucket. The likely candidate is the Batavia (NY) Muckdogs, a Miami Marlins affiliate that have been struggling and were recently taken over the by Single A Penn-NY League until such a time as a future owner is found. With a city population of less than 16,000, Batavia is one of the smallest cities to host a professional baseball team in the United States in the 21st century. McCoy Stadium along with the Providence metro market would be among the very largest in the NY-Penn League and all of Single A. Such a team would however not come close to replacing the Pawsox as attendance and interest for a team at a lower level, with less games, and no connection to the Bosox would never approach what we once saw at McCoy. It would however keep minor league baseball in RI with no new public investment providing families a low cost night out with cheap tickets and free parking.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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McCoy is far too big for that level of baseball, they would have to get rid of seating, plus you still have the issues with the facility as it ages. A scaled down ballpark at Slater Mill would be interesting, but who pays the ownership share and would there be any appetite from the state to fund a new team?
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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RhowdyRam02 wrote:McCoy is far too big for that level of baseball, they would have to get rid of seating, plus you still have the issues with the facility as it ages. A scaled down ballpark at Slater Mill would be interesting, but who pays the ownership share and would there be any appetite from the state to fund a new team?
How much of McCoy's seating is considered the left field grass and the right-center field bleachers?
I was able to go to Hadlock Field in Portland last summer, granted it's AA baseball, but that stadium has a capacity of around ~7,500 and it was pretty full that night.
I happen to think that if you put cheap baseball at McCoy, it will sell -- the biggest loss will be the "rehab" outings and the attendance boost from that.
If it's A ball, tickets should be cheaper, making it even more family friendly.
I was at McCoy last night, place was pretty empty for a beautiful Tuesday night.
You know it's bad when I walk away with two foul balls.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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RhowdyRam02 wrote:McCoy is far too big for that level of baseball, they would have to get rid of seating, plus you still have the issues with the facility as it ages. A scaled down ballpark at Slater Mill would be interesting, but who pays the ownership share and would there be any appetite from the state to fund a new team?

The average stadium capacity for the NY-Penn League is 4,767. The smallest venue is in Williamsport at 2,366. The two NYC teams have the highest capacities with Brooklyn at 7,000 and Staten Island at 7,171.

The league is a Class A Short Season league; its season starts in June, after major league teams have signed their amateur draft picks to professional contracts, and ends in early September. The regular season is just 76 games versus the 140 of the Triple AAA International League. There are presently New England teams in Norwich-CT, Lowell-MA, and Burlington-VT.

If the Pawsox move to Worcester as is now expected, it is the best that RI can expect. The new Woosox team could reject a team in Pawtucket based on the distance rule. If they drop their objection, it would make sense to get any sort of team to play at what would otherwise be a vacant stadium. It would never come close to the attendance numbers and interest that the Pawsox once got at McCoy. The lack of a connection to the Bosox would also be a big setback. Given the large metro population and history of a successful team at McCoy, I can easily envision a new team there being atop the NY-Penn League standards (much lower than AAA) in many aspects including attendance, stadium quality, fan experience, media coverage, etc...
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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I just don't see A level baseball working in/supporting that stadium. Especially short-season (38 dates)
Seems it would make more sense to consider other options for the land as opposed to trying to put baseball in it.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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rjsuperfly66 wrote:
RhowdyRam02 wrote:McCoy is far too big for that level of baseball, they would have to get rid of seating, plus you still have the issues with the facility as it ages. A scaled down ballpark at Slater Mill would be interesting, but who pays the ownership share and would there be any appetite from the state to fund a new team?
How much of McCoy's seating is considered the left field grass and the right-center field bleachers?
I was able to go to Hadlock Field in Portland last summer, granted it's AA baseball, but that stadium has a capacity of around ~7,500 and it was pretty full that night.
I happen to think that if you put cheap baseball at McCoy, it will sell -- the biggest loss will be the "rehab" outings and the attendance boost from that.
If it's A ball, tickets should be cheaper, making it even more family friendly.
I was at McCoy last night, place was pretty empty for a beautiful Tuesday night.
You know it's bad when I walk away with two foul balls.
Probably about 1800, and you could easily get rid of the right field bleachers, but the left field berm still seems relatively popular compared to what they're drawing now. I just don't see how a Marlins summer league team would draw in that park if the Boston AAA team is struggling. Add in that you're losing a decent chunk of fans that go now that will go to Worcester. Plus, why would people in southern RI go anymore? I can't imagine the talent difference is that great between this summer league team and the college leagues that play in Newport and Wakefield.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by RF1 »

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:I just don't see A level baseball working in/supporting that stadium. Especially short-season (38 dates)
Seems it would make more sense to consider other options for the land as opposed to trying to put baseball in it.

Why would it not work? The stadium and all the infrastructure is already there. No major improvements and upgrades would be needed for a long time as it would already be far and above most venues in Single A. The Pawsox paid little to no rent so I would expect the same for the next team. I think the team could draw well by Single A standards making it a model franchise.

You want it to sit abandoned as the hospital just a few blocks away? It will be very expensive to demolish the stadium and I doubt private developers would have any interest. Most city residents think the site eventually will someday house a consolidated high school (replacing Tolman and Shea). That however is still quite a ways off.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

RF1 wrote:
NYGFan_Section208 wrote:I just don't see A level baseball working in/supporting that stadium. Especially short-season (38 dates)
Seems it would make more sense to consider other options for the land as opposed to trying to put baseball in it.

Why would it not work? The stadium and all the infrastructure is already there. No major improvements and upgrades would be needed for a long time as it would already be far and above most venues in Single A. The Pawsox paid little to no rent so I would expect the same for the next team. I think the team could draw well by Single A standards making it a model franchise.

You want it to sit abandoned as the hospital just a few blocks away? It will be very expensive to demolish the stadium and I doubt private developers would have any interest. Most city residents think the site eventually will someday house a consolidated high school (replacing Tolman and Shea). That however is still quite a ways off.
If the PawSox...top affiliate for the local (very local and very successful) Red Sox are drawing 1800 on a nice summer night...while school is still out...what is a Single A short season team (of a franchise no one cares about) going to draw? 1,000 seems optimistic and I don't know about running a stadium, but not sure that would even cover costs, would it? Get some designers/developers in to take a look at what can be done to make the property productive.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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I'm not a big soccer guy, but if the PawSox skip town I really hope Grebien takes a run at the New England Revolution. They're currently looking for a location for a soccer-only stadium, and the Slater Mill project seems like it could be a great destination. Not as many games, but wayyyy higher attendance and prestige for the area.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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Puck Frovidence wrote:I'm not a big soccer guy, but if the PawSox skip town I really hope Grebien takes a run at the New England Revolution. They're currently looking for a location for a soccer-only stadium, and the Slater Mill project seems like it could be a great destination. Not as many games, but wayyyy higher attendance and prestige for the area.
Completely agree
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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Worcester City Council holding an announcement/"celebration" tomorrow...
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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Article on PawSox moving to Worcester....

https://www.masslive.com/news/worcester ... _deal.html
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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All that is being announced tomorrow is the City of Worcester stadium proposal. The Pawsox are currently in the midst of a home-stand with a game tomorrow night followed by games on Saturday and Sunday. There is no way the team will make an announcement of a move when the team is at home. If they decide to move as is now expected, look for something to eventually come out when they are either on the road or more likely the season is over. It would be an ugly atmosphere to play games at McCoy soon after news of a move comes out.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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RF1 wrote:All that is being announced tomorrow is the City of Worcester stadium proposal. The Pawsox are currently in the midst of a home-stand with a game tomorrow night followed by games on Saturday and Sunday. There is no way the team will make an announcement of a move when the team is at home. If the decide to move as is now expected, look for something to eventually come out when they are either on the road or more likely the season is over. It would be an ugly atmosphere to play games at McCoy soon after news of a move comes out.
Announce tomorrow morning, and then have it be dollar beer night tomorrow night.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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We should rename our state to NO-Island, where everyone turns down everything and then it all moves to Massachusetts. STAY IN PAWTUCKET!
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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RhowdyRam02 wrote:
Puck Frovidence wrote:I'm not a big soccer guy, but if the PawSox skip town I really hope Grebien takes a run at the New England Revolution. They're currently looking for a location for a soccer-only stadium, and the Slater Mill project seems like it could be a great destination. Not as many games, but wayyyy higher attendance and prestige for the area.
Completely agree

The same small time thinkers that botched the Pawsox stadium would screw that up too.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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Paw Sox officially moving to Worcester, link includes comments from Tom Werner.

https://www.wcvb.com/article/worcester- ... x/22758218
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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RF1 wrote:All that is being announced tomorrow is the City of Worcester stadium proposal. The Pawsox are currently in the midst of a home-stand with a game tomorrow night followed by games on Saturday and Sunday. There is no way the team will make an announcement of a move when the team is at home. If they decide to move as is now expected, look for something to eventually come out when they are either on the road or more likely the season is over. It would be an ugly atmosphere to play games at McCoy soon after news of a move comes out.
Oops...
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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I've been following this story on and off for the past year or so and honestly to me it looks as though Grebien did a great job trying to make this happen with all the various parties involved. I really hope Pawtucket gets to build that Slater Mill project - and again would love to see the Revolution move in there.

With that said, it's tough not to be disgusted by both the greed and mercenary nature of Luccino and the owners, and the lack of political will on the part on the state to keep the team here in Rhode Island. Everyone comes out looking bad, with possibly the exception of Pawtucket...which unfortunately now will suffer the worst of the consequences of this move.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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This states gov are a bunch of 1st graders with their heads in a hole. Goodbye 2.6 mil a year in tax revenue and to 10s of millions of dollars to invested money in this state. Props to Pawtucket’s Mayer for making an actual effort to improve his city and this state.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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See, that's kind of a bullshit petty click-take by a Deadspin writer who's not super familiar with the situation. The headline looks good but McDonald is mostly right: the fact is Matiello's proposal was one that was politically expedient, but not practical (or even intended) to achieve the stated result. It basically amounts to theater in an attempt to absolve state officials of responsibility for this loss (at the polls). The goal was not to simply make an offer. The goal was to keep the team here. Everybody and his mom knows that the team/ballpark itself was not going to be a driving economic engine; in both Worcester and Pawtucket it was the public face/impetus for a larger project of urban renewal. This "article" is classic lazy hot-takery, with a sprinkle of "get with it, grandad" bullshit.

I'm a millennial and I hate this sort of millennial shit. It ain't journalism.
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Re: Pawsox Sold, Potentially Moving

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Oh, to be fair though TP - all that being said I am a bit of an Athletic skeptic.
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