PATRIOTS-RAVENS

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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by SmartyBarrett »

rodfromcranston wrote:Exactly!
My question is, if this were the Jacksonville Jaguars,
would anyone even care?
Totally agree. People care WAY more because this is the Patriots.
I guarantee you that if the Colts won 45-7 and the Patriots accused them of deflating balls, the prevailing storyline would be "Patriots are sore loser crybabies"
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by adam914 »

SmartyBarrett wrote:
rodfromcranston wrote:Exactly!
My question is, if this were the Jacksonville Jaguars,
would anyone even care?
Totally agree. People care WAY more because this is the Patriots.
I guarantee you that if the Colts won 45-7 and the Patriots accused them of deflating balls, the prevailing storyline would be "Patriots are sore loser crybabies"
I understand what you're saying, but if the Colts had previously been accused of another "cheating" scandal then people would defintely care.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by SmartyBarrett »

Sure, that's part of it. Another part of it (which is quite evident) is that there are more than a few journalists out there that simply don't like the Patriots.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

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TruePoint wrote:So you are saying that every violation of a rule is cheating?

banderson good point on Bud. He seems like a shmuck but was the best commissioner out of the four major sports when it was him, Goodell, Stern and Bowman (I think that is the NHL guy but i might be off on the name).
Eh, Stern wasn't great at the end, between silly stuff like blocking the Chris Paul trade and allowing Oklahoma City to steal Seattle. But he's way better than Selig, who was a complete shill for the owners, had a tie all-star game, and saw the cancellation of a World Series on his watch. Stern was also the commissioner in charge when the NBA made the leap to a league equivalent with the NFL and MLB at that time, whereas Selig just held serve, at best.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by TruePoint »

David Stern is a vile human being and turned a league legitimized by Magic, Bird and Jordan into one with as much credibility and trustworthiness as the WWE. I wouldn't let David Stern watch my dogs.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

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TruePoint wrote:David Stern is a vile human being and turned a league legitimized by Magic, Bird and Jordan into one with as much credibility and trustworthiness as the WWE. I wouldn't let David Stern watch my dogs.
They're all vile dudes though. (Well, maybe not Adam Silver, but who knows? Roger Goodell seemed swell for the first couple years too.) Selig got the World Series cancelled, then mostly ignored everything to do with steroids until the situation became so untenable that he couldn't profit on it any longer.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by TruePoint »

I don't really hold the steroids thing against him, personally. That was institutionalized in the game, and with such a strong labor union he was helpless to unilaterally do anything about it. It wasn't until the public caught on that he had the leverage to do something. The baseball strike was almost 20 years ago, and they've now had the longest run of labor peace in sports. He also modernized the game by reformatting the divisions, introducing the wildcard and expanding the playoffs, creating inter-league play gradually introducing replay (which may have gone too far in some cases but that is correctable). Pure traditionalists might hate some of that stuff, but overall those things have been a success.

I can't believe I am defending Bud because I used to rail against him for things like the all-star game and just his general oafy demeanor. But compared to his peers, he was less destructive to the image of his sport.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

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Bill Belichick's inspiration for today's press conference:
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by TruePoint »

Belichick just completely killed that. People are saying be threw Brady under the bus, but this is obviously part of a strategy that everyone in Foxboro is on board with. Brady will be as prepared at 4pm today as he is for games on Sunday, say "aw shucks, I like soft footballs, but I've never talked about PSI. I feel the ball and say "this one feels good" and we roll with that." Same thing basically as Rodgers said. That is the end of this dumb story, the media looks dumb, the Pats pay 25k fine and this whole dumb thing can be put to bed. Pats win again.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by rambone 78 »

Actually, Rod, BB might not know about it.

An article just posted a few minutes ago, John Madden thinks it's all on Brady.

The QB has said he likes the balls softer. Maybe he has instructed the ball boy or whoever, to let air out of the balls to his liking.

If so, this has been going on for a while at seems.

This gets stranger and stranger, but it kind of makes sense.

Suspend Brady for the SB? Say it ain't so Tom. His entire legacy is on the line here.

TP, that's bullshit. 11 out of the 12 balls were underinflated. Not a couple. Trying to bury this under the rug, might make things worse.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by TruePoint »

Yes exactly, 11 out of 12 balls were exactly how Brady likes them. You think he hooks it up to the machine to test the PSI? Or just says "ok this one feels good." Before Monday nobody in the football world gave a damn (or knew anything about) how much air is in the ball. Also, that Madden thing came out yesterday afternoon, and about a dozen current and former QBs have said the same thing.

Anyways, I bet you anything this thing has hit it's high water mark. Brady will plead ignorance but accept responsibility. There will be minimum penalty from the league because THIS IS NOT ACTUALLY A BIG DEAL. The air in the ball doesn't matter, this was only a controversy because the media thought they could pin it on Bill, but now that they can't it will pass. 25k fine and moving on.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by rambone 78 »

BB is the head man. He is responsible for everything that goes on with that team.

Maybe he didn't know what his QB was doing, but that doesn't absolve him of responsibility.

They are going to be penalized, both of them. What kind of penalty, we're about to find out.

TP, I know you're a Pats fan. They aren't going to be replaced in the SB. That would shock the world.

I would NOT be surprised, however, if Brady is suspended.
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Unread post by TruePoint »

Ok you think that and we will see who is correct. You've had a dozen+ other QBs talk about how they manipulate the ball. It is not a big deal and the league will treat it appropriately. Fine of not more than 50k and maybe a late round pick. Watch. Story totally changed once Bill dislodged himself from it. You gotta catch up - you're making yesterday's arguments.
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Unread post by ramfan85 »

The media isn't going to let this go away. Don't know why, but I put the "View" on at 11AM to see the opening. Fat-ass Rosie is still saying the Colts should go to the SB and the Pats are only good because they cheat better than any other team. And these bitches admit that they know nothing about football.
I'm still waiting for the facts to come out. I have a problem with people saying that the balls were deflated before the game.
When the balls have been checked by the ref, they are marked and never leave the field. With all the cameras on the sidelines, it would take a Houdini to deflate 11 balls without being seen. Everything is on film on the field. Hell, coaches cover their mouths when they talk because there are lip readers in the booth.
It's also strange that a linebacker can tell in about a minute that something is wrong, when the refs, who handle the ball more than the qb's couldn't. It sounds like the Colts were waiting for an interception or something to bring this thing to light.
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Unread post by rodfromcranston »

On ESPN Sports Science, they went through deflated or inflated balls.
Obviously, the deflated ball didn't go as far and didn't spiral as well.
Some recievers said they didn't even like the softer ball.
Wonder what Blount thinks of it? LOL!
Just much ado about nothing, blown up by the media and haters countrywide.
I think it's typical that the Ravens are making more of a stink than the Colts.
Luck said it's a nothing story, and one of the Colts said the Pats would have beaten them
using a bar of soap, instead of a ball.
Ridiculous!
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by TruePoint »

Who cares about the View or other non-sports media? They're always going to be a couple days behind, because they don't know what they are talking about and they aren't smart enough to adjust their views on the fly as facts come out. They are dependent on regurgitating yesterday's "hot takes." Brady will talk today and take Bill the rest of the way off the hook, the NFL will hand down their wrist slap tomorrow in a textbook Friday news dump, and by Monday the football media will be on to the game and the non-sports media will have forgotten about it.

This was not my opinion this morning before Bill spoke, but he was brilliant and started the process of defusing this. To me it is already over, but admittedly that is partly in anticipation of what will unfold in the next 24 hours.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by ramfan85 »

This would be a good case for Columbo.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by rambone 78 »

So BB and now Brady are in full denial. How could they admit it if they did it?

Well, somebody deflated the balls. The Colts' balls weren't.

Somebody isn't talking. Whoever did it, I'm sure did it under orders.

So the NFL may never be able to prove who did it.

Like it or not, they [the NFL] isn't going to just forget about it. This has happened before.

I think they are going to make an example out of somebody. The only question, is when.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by ramfan85 »

I can see next week's headlines now "ISIS Takes White House, While Everyone In The Freakin' Country Attend Pats Press Conference."
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by TruePoint »

rambone 78 wrote: Well, somebody deflated the balls. The Colts' balls weren't.
I think it is pretty clear that the theory they are trying to advance (and force the League to rebut) is that they just prepped the footballs as they usually do, that they didn't measure the PSI of the balls and didn't know they were underinflated, and that the official inspection didn't catch it. If the league can't prove that isn't true then their hands are tied. As a pats fan I really don't care if it is true or not, only whether the NFL can prove it.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by rambone 78 »

Totally understand that, but it has to be more than a coincidence that all those balls were underinflated.

It's a tough spot to be in. I just doubt that nothing will come of it.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by TruePoint »

If the balls were all prepped to 12's specifications, it wouldn't be a coincidence at all that they are all the same, right? Their argument is that they prepped the balls how they wanted them and it was up to the refs to catch it if they weren't up to standard.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by rambone 78 »

What? If the Pats knew they weren't up to standard, and the refs didn't catch it, they are guilty as shit!
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Unread post by TruePoint »

Wow you are having a really difficult time keeping up here. The Pats prepped the balls. They didn't think they were or were not in compliance, they just knew they were how they wanted them. It is up to the refs to do the inspection to decide whether they are in compliance or not. If the refs just felt the balls and didn't measure the PSI and OK'd them, then the Pats didn't do anything wrong. That is their argument.

Honest question: are you even following this story at all, or just in here trolling Patriots fans with half baked arguments?
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by rambone 78 »

TP, I'm no longer going to argue with you about this. This, and no more.

If the balls weren't in compliance, they weren't in compliance!

If the Pats prepped the balls, which they did, and they aren't inflated to the proper psi, then that is a violation!!!

Who cares if the refs missed it! Penalize the refs too if they must.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by TruePoint »

That actually isn't true, but OK. Once the refs approve the ball it is on them. That was what the Rodgers thing was about. That is why they have the inspection. Now, they may end up paying a 25k fine, but nobody is going to get suspended or anything like that.

The bottom line here is that this wasn't a big deal. It was just a compliance issue that happens all the time in the NFL. If the Colts hadn't complained and then leaked it to the press or if the team involved wasn't the Patriots, nobody ever would have even heard about this. The idea that this is what we are talking about before the super bowl is so absurd that it borders on surreal.

At this point, I don't think many Patriots fans care about what anyone else thinks, since it is clear most people cannot be objective about it. The Patriots didn't do anything they should apologize for and are just victims of their own success. I expect them to channel their frustration and thrash the Seahawks.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by rambone 78 »

I think the Pats knew they were skirting the rules with the soft balls. Maybe Gronk was softening them up with his spikes...ha ha

If the refs weren't catching it, then I could see why the Pats wouldn't think it was a big deal.

There's going to be at least a slap on the wrist somewhere here. But you know how the perception game goes. The Pats aren't going to get the benefit of the doubt, no doubt.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by ramfan85 »

I tend to agree with TP's theory of the Pats inflating/deflating the balls the way Brady likes them and leaving it up to the refs to identify the lower PSI. That sounds like a Belichick move. I can't imagine how it could have been done on the sidelines with all the cameras, security, etc. I haven't heard anything come out about the refs checking the PSI before the game, just that they checked them. Did I miss this?
I really don't know if the refs do this (PSI) for every ball in every game or not. They may just give a visual check and then ok them. I don't know.
I do believe that there are a lot of teams that dislike the Pats and look for anything they can to nail them. I remember saying to people in 2007, when the Pats ran up the score on beaten teams, that these teams won't forget this. They even tried to do it to the Colts the other night. Remember Brady's TD pass (incomplete) with about 4 minutes left in the game?
I also agree that there is no use worrying if people outside of NE like the Pats or not. I doubt that this incident is going to change anyone's minds, anyway.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by adam914 »

TruePoint wrote: At this point, I don't think many Patriots fans care about what anyone else thinks, since it is clear most people cannot be objective about it. The Patriots didn't do anything they should apologize for and are just victims of their own success.
I actually agree with most of what you've said on the topic overall, I really think its not a big deal at all. But these are the type of comments from Pats fans that crack me up. It's pretty tough for Pats fans to be objective about it as well I would think.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by TruePoint »

I honestly feel that I would think the exact same thing about this if it was Seattle, or Pittsburgh or San Diego. It is so absurd.
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Unread post by rodfromcranston »

Did you hear the screeching questions to Brady,
like he was accused of Aaron Hernandez level crimes.
I don't know how he kept his cool.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by jmck »

All I know is that if I was the person in charge of the balls and I heard an over the air interview where Tom Brady said that he likes a slightly deflated ball, I would take a little air out of the ball without Brady even talking to me. Just like if my boss said in a passing conversation that he thinks Allie's chocolate covered donuts are the best in the world, I would get some every three or four months to keep him on my good side. Sometimes, you don't have to be told what to do.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by Ramulous »

My opinion is that the Patriots staff prepared the balls to Brady's preferences......they didn't meter and gauge the balls.....the refs came in and inspected the balls....they looked at them, handled them and squeezed them to see if they were suitable to the touch.....the refs did not meter and gauge them....but okayed them based on their inspection....

....most people cannot discern between a slightly over-filled football or an under-filled football.....I don't think the ball was that weak so as to raise a concern....

....if the balls were metered and gauged by the refs and then the Pats went in and let air out after the refs left the balls.....that is a different story.....

If you hate the Patriots.....you blame them either way....If you like them you absolve them either way......
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by adam914 »

Ramulous wrote: If you hate the Patriots.....you blame them either way....If you like them you absolve them either way......
Yeah I think this pretty much sums it up right here.
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Unread post by ramfan85 »

I think it's important to hear that the refs did or didn't check the psi levels of all the game balls. I haven't heard that yet. I just hear that they "checked" them. I'd also like to hear the Pats say that they gave the balls to the refs to check. If they were supposed to check the psi and didn't, it's on them for not doing their jobs. The Pats always push the limits.
If the Pats did screw around with the balls after they were checked, , they should be punished. But, I'd hate to see them take the fall for the refs' mistakes.

New theory today: The Colts got to the Pats' ball boy. This kid may become the best known minimum wage worker on the planet.
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Unread post by Ramulous »

I dismiss the bribed ball boy conspiracy theory......
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Unread post by TruePoint »

If the refs did not check the psi of the balls before the game, they will not admit it. If the number isn't recorded somewhere, the Patriots should drill that point. They won't, though, because Kraft can't undermine Goodell.

Half of my problem here is with Kraft. He should be putting all his resources and energy into a PR counteroffensive against every media person, former player, opposing team personnel and League official. Dox them, embarrass them, hire PIs to find dirt on them, embarrass them, ruin their marriages and try to get them fired. Scorch the damn earth. These people are coming after you and trying to ruin you over absolutely nothing. They are the bad guys. If I were Kraft and they came at me, I would go to war about it.
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Unread post by ramfan85 »

TP,
Can't use the word "war" referring to sports. Not politically correct. haha.
But, the rest sounds doable, especially ruining their marriages....

Just heard the official statement from the NFL. I have to admit, the statement of how they're approaching this sounded impressive. Maybe a little too impressive. They said the balls were all properly checked and only the 11 game balls of NE had a psi change. I think 1 ball was thrown into the stands.

I'm getting the impression that this thing was started weeks ago. Maybe somebody complained about after another game.
It doesn't look good for the Pats now. The NFL statement mentioned "human element" as the cause. Now, the question is who did it.
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Unread post by TruePoint »

I tend to react like Al Capone in the Untouchables whenever I feel like I or anyone or anything I care about is under attack.

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Unread post by ramfan85 »

I'm at that point now, too.
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Unread post by adam914 »

TruePoint wrote:If the refs did not check the psi of the balls before the game, they will not admit it. If the number isn't recorded somewhere, the Patriots should drill that point. They won't, though, because Kraft can't undermine Goodell.

Half of my problem here is with Kraft. He should be putting all his resources and energy into a PR counteroffensive against every media person, former player, opposing team personnel and League official. Dox them, embarrass them, hire PIs to find dirt on them, embarrass them, ruin their marriages and try to get them fired. Scorch the damn earth. These people are coming after you and trying to ruin you over absolutely nothing. They are the bad guys. If I were Kraft and they came at me, I would go to war about it.
Or they could have just not fucked with the balls because it was kinda dumb, no? :lol:
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

Did anyone read the article with quotes from an old Chicago Bears ball-boy? Think it said he was a ballboy back in 2003. They would do whatever they could to the balls to get it to the QB's liking, and then take it to the ref's meeting. The refs would usually just toss it up and down a few times, check the laces, and that was it. Said after that, it would have been nearly impossible to alter the balls just because they basically go out to the field and you are now in front of thousands of media and fans. Reports have said the balls passed pregame inspection, but I guess some are still skeptical how much they were checked.

That said, there are things I don't necessarily agree with with BB & TB12. Against Baltimore, BB was this mastermind who knows the rulebook better than anybody and that's why he is so great. Then he comes up to the podium and he has no idea on how the gameballs are prepared, how they get to the officials, how they are checked, etc.? The guy has been in the NFL for almost 50 years. Seems hard to believe he has no knowledge on that aspect. As for TB12, guy has had to have thrown at least a million passes between practice and games, etc. Is he really going to try to convince us that he has no idea the PSI difference between a regulation ball and a deflated ball at 10.5 PSI? Again, just seems a little far-fetched.

I'm not pretending to know what happened, just thought those things seemed a little crazy.
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Unread post by SmartyBarrett »

rjsuperfly66 wrote:As for TB12, guy has had to have thrown at least a million passes between practice and games, etc. Is he really going to try to convince us that he has no idea the PSI difference between a regulation ball and a deflated ball at 10.5 PSI? Again, just seems a little far-fetched.
They said the difference in weight between 12.5 and 10.5 is equivalent to the weight of a dollar bill. I certainly buy that it would be almost literally impossible to tell the difference (without scientific equipment, of course) - I don't care how many footballs you've held in your life.
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rambone 78
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by rambone 78 »

The Pats are truly putting themselves out there by denying everything.

Belichek now explaining something that he admitted he knew nothing about until a couple days ago.

How the balls are prepped I mean.

If the NFL finds out that someone in that organization is lying, there will be hell to pay beyond anything you can imagine.

Doesn't matter whether they think it's a big deal or not. Their reputation, not great to begin with, with be ruined forever.

11 out of 12 balls can't deflate themselves. That's why not many people are believing them.
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TruePoint
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by TruePoint »

That they would come out and say they are 100% sure they didn't do anything wrong means they don't think the NFL can get anything on them. If they are proven to be liars, sure. There will be hell to pay and that starts with Bill losing his job and #12 ruining his reputation. But that they are willing to put that on the line has to be viewed as a STRONG indication of their innocence in the absence of the NFL completely proving beyond all doubt that they are straight lying. People with something to hide don't do that.

The best part of today was him completely tearing down the significance of spygate in about three sentences. Bill was perfect today.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by adam914 »

Bill Belichick is innocent because Bill Belichick said that Bill Belichick is innocent!
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by TruePoint »

I'm really sorry, man. You guys almost had this one. Almost. I know it would have made your season since you couldn't close on the playoff berth.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by rambone 78 »

One's thing's for sure, the Pats, BB, and TB, know how serious this is now.

A few days ago, they were basically laughing it off. No more.

For their sake, they had better be right.

As for Spygate, that's bullshit. It happened, it was a violation, it was serious. More arrogance.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by TruePoint »

rambone 78 wrote: As for Spygate, that's bullshit. It happened, it was a violation, it was serious. More arrogance.
Dead wrong. It was a complete joke, as I've long maintained. The only thing wrong with what they did was that they did it from the wrong location, which was a very minor technical violation of a league rule but was the farthest thing from cheating imaginable. If that is difficult to understand, you're just not that bright. Which explains why most NFL fans can't figure it out.

The rest of your post was gibberish.
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Re: PATRIOTS-RAVENS

Unread post by rambone 78 »

Sorry, not buying it. BB is right, just because HE said it? We'll see.

If I were a Pats fan, I'd be nervous.

As for the "not very bright" comment, it might be nice, since you're a moderator, to refrain from insulting other posters.
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