Mankins

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Billyboy78
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Mankins

Unread post by Billyboy78 »

Wow, didn't see that coming.
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UCH21377
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by UCH21377 »

if they can plug in a guy who is 80% as good as another guy for 20% of the cost, they'll do it, in many positions.
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SmartyBarrett
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by SmartyBarrett »

Available cap space never hurts. If a key guy goes down, they now have the $$ to replace him.
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rodfromcranston
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

Sorry to see Mankins go. So were his teammates.
As always, it was about money.
I wonder what getting a TE in return says about how they
feel about Gronk's ability to stay on the field?
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Rhody74
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by Rhody74 »

From what I understand, the TE was on the bubble at Tampa Bay, so he is probably just insurance. I think it's still all up to Gronk. I presume BB feels confident in the other OL players on the roster will be able to fill in the gap.
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Re: Mankins

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SGreenwell
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by SGreenwell »

Man, I don't see how this is comparable to the Seymour trade. While they're somewhat similar, in that I think the Pats are selling high on both players, the return seems really different. A fourth round pick, typically you're happy if a player from that round becomes a starter, whereas a first round pick is usually a guy that can be on the cusp of a Pro Bowl year after year. As for the TE the Pats got, on paper he seems like a good fit, but more than the other pro sports it seems like football trades involving players rely on a special sort of alchemy.
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TruePoint
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by TruePoint »

I think everyone, including Belichick, can agree that Mankins was a great player and a great teammate. Unfortunately, he plays the least valued position on the field besides specialists. He was probably overpaid even as an unquestioned all-pro, but coming off of severe injuries and being past his prime age, I think moving him is addition by subtraction insofar as it will allow the team more flexibility to pay Revis and other players next year who are more important to the team's success than a guard. The difference between a good LG and a very good LG is not all that impactful to the offense.

Also, on what to take from the acquisition of a TE, I don't think it means anything for Gronk. Wright is a "move" TE and plays off the formation in a primarily pass-catching role. They've been trying to fill that role since Hernandez was sent away. He isn't a complete mope, either. He caught 50-some balls and five TDs as a rookie last year on a bad offense.
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UCH21377
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by UCH21377 »

This guy had a few pretty good games last year, with a young QB throwing to him. He's going to see a lot of action, even if Gronk plays.
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rodfromcranston
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

Hey, Bill Belichick, how's this trade working out for you?
Yeah, let's get Brady killed and have no running game, because of
Bob Kraft's money.
Incredibly short sighted.
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rambone 78
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by rambone 78 »

The Patriots are in a world of hurt. Their OL is shitty, that will get you beat, a lot.

Ask Eli about that.

The Pats are lucky they are in the AFC Least.
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rodfromcranston
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

Rich Incognito is still out there. Better bring him in for some toughness, before Brady gets killed.
Did they even try to re-sign Blount?
No O line.
No running game.
No deep threat.
What is Amendola doing on the team, if Brady is afraid to throw to him, or anyone but
Edleman or Gronk?
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rambone 78
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by rambone 78 »

Not to mention the defense. Or lack of it.

Who would have thought the freakin' Cowboys would have a better defense than the Pats so far this year?

Again, the Pats will muddle through to the playoffs because everyone else in their division sucks worse.

One and done once they're there, though.
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Captainron@
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by Captainron@ »

Bump
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TruePoint
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by TruePoint »

lol...bunch of sages in this thread!
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rjsuperfly66
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

The only thing people were wrong about was the defense. I'm not sold on the arsenal of offensive weapons until the season ends. Then we can see how the depth holds up and assess accordingly. The offense has looked great because Brady has played great. He's gotten mobile. And Gronk is playing as expected when healthy. They found a line combination that is above average and comfortable receiving weapons in their role. But they will look silly if Marcus Cannon is playing in January and gets abused and people say "What if Mankins was still on the team?" Don't think that debate ends until the season ends and we see how the depth holds up if tested. Then we can look at the move, the remaining cap space, and see if we believe they did enough to win it all. Right now, it looks that way. But time will tell.
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TruePoint
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by TruePoint »

Right, but the point was basically that the Patriots didn't know what they were doing and Belichick's arrogance was backfiring in real time on live TV. And as usual, Bill was right and the fans were wrong. They weren't necessarily wrong about what they were seeing at the time, but they were wrong to assume those flaws were fatal and that the team didn't have answers they were working on.
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rjsuperfly66
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

TruePoint wrote:Right, but the point was basically that the Patriots didn't know what they were doing and Belichick's arrogance was backfiring in real time on live TV. And as usual, Bill was right and the fans were wrong. They weren't necessarily wrong about what they were seeing at the time, but they were wrong to assume those flaws were fatal and that the team didn't have answers they were working on.
While true now, the lack of depth at O-line or in the receiving core could prove to a fatal flaw if the Patriots lose Gronk/any lineman. It's easy to say Bill was right since they have been playing at such a high level. But if someone goes down and Cannon/Devey get abused and it's a big part in a playoff loss, people are going to crap on the Mankins trade again. If they continue to stay healthy at those key places, Bill wins and we are all wrong.

The other big difference I don't think gets enough play is that Brady elevated his play in a way he hasn't had to do in maybe a decade. He had to learn to go from a true pocket passer to utilizing more mobility almost on the fly. There are stats out there that say the line play is only marginally better in terms of time Brady can stand in the pocket. These statisticians say the difference is that Brady is stepping/moving better in order to lengthen plays.
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by TruePoint »

If they lose Gronk it wouldn't matter whether Mankins was here or not. I don't think Patriots fans appreciate how severely Mankins was in decline. The line in Tampa Bay may be the worst in football this year. Meanwhile, Wright has emerged as a legit threat in the passing game - not as a guy who gets a high volume of targets and catches but certainly as a red zone weapon.
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adam914
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by adam914 »

Hate to break up the Pats lovefest (actually no I don't) but to call Wright a red zone weapon may be a bit generous. I'm pretty sure you could line up an offensive lineman opposite Gronk in the red zone like they have with Wright and that lineman would have the same number of TDs that Wright has.
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rjsuperfly66
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Re: Mankins

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

TruePoint wrote:If they lose Gronk it wouldn't matter whether Mankins was here or not. I don't think Patriots fans appreciate how severely Mankins was in decline. The line in Tampa Bay may be the worst in football this year. Meanwhile, Wright has emerged as a legit threat in the passing game - not as a guy who gets a high volume of targets and catches but certainly as a red zone weapon.
The impact of Wright is overstated. What he does is nice but don't think it's special. Not saying we could do what he does, but the degree of difficulty on most of his catches are 3 out of 10? 2 out of 10? Most of them are relatively undefended all he has to do is run and catch (or in the case of his 2nd TD Sunday, stand there without a guy within 15 yards of you).

I agree with you that without Gronk, Mankins doesn't matter. My concern is more that the line as is has been above average, but missing just one piece they've gone from above average to below average. The dip is tremendous from Stork, Connolly or Wendell to Fleming, Devey, or Cannon. You lose one of those guys against a strong defensive front 7, and you could get destroyed (see KC). And then it'll come up "Well your cap has Mankins on it for $4 million this year, what if we had him instead of Cannon?"

But hey, so far they've escaped and we haven't had to argue it outside of the beginning of the year. Let's pray we don't have to at the end.
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