Celtics

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rhodyfan3
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Celtics

Unread post by rhodyfan3 »

It is sad to see them go down like this. They look overmatched and hopeless. Two words I never thought I would say referring to the Celtics against the Knicks. They will most likely be swept. They haven't had any offensive flow at all and the Knicks always answer any run or lead the celtics get. Hopefully in the offseason they can get some pieces. I'm hoping a solid center, a PF, and a SF. Anyone have any thoughts?
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Re: Celtics

Unread post by SGreenwell »

It's tough to see the road ahead for the Celtics. Even with a healthy Rondo this year, I don't think they would have gotten past the Heat, unless something screwy happened (injury / suspension to Wade or LeBron or Bosh, the team gelling perfectly with the return of Avery Bradley, etc.). Although they both played at an All-Star level this year, you have to project more slippage for Pierce and Garnett next year, and I'm not sure if the improvement of Green, Bradley, Rondo and whoever else is under 30 on the roster makes up for that.

They basically have to hope to hit the jackpot unexpectedly in the teens and 20s of the draft, like what they did with Rondo, in what is widely considered to be a draft that has plenty of depth but not really superstars. The "marquee" free agent (I think) is Brandon Jennings, since more and more teams are trying to lock up guys before they hit free agency. Kevin Love might be available in a trade, since he allegedly hates Minnesota's ownership, but I'm not sure if the Celtics have the assets to trade for him or another all-star level player.
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Re: Celtics

Unread post by SmartyBarrett »

I may be overly optimistic, but I think a core of Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sullinger is not a bad one for the future. Obviously it needs more pieces, but the notion that they'll transform to the pre-KG Celtics is ridiculous IMO.
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Re: Celtics

Unread post by SGreenwell »

SmartyBarrett wrote:I may be overly optimistic, but I think a core of Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sullinger is not a bad one for the future. Obviously it needs more pieces, but the notion that they'll transform to the pre-KG Celtics is ridiculous IMO.
I think if they lose one of Garnett or Pierce, they're probably where the Hawks are - still in the playoffs yearly, but probably not a serious title contender. Sullinger also needs to stay healthy to be counted on going forward. Coming into this year, the big worry on him was health, and sure enough, he did get injured.
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Re: Celtics

Unread post by rhodyfan3 »

My hope for next year is that they grab a center because KG cannot last very long playing the 5. Al Jefferson is a free agent next year, who knows if he wants to come back but I am allowed to dream. If they grab a center, a spot up shooter, and keep most of the guys they have now I think they can make a run. Jeff Green and Brandon Bass are able to cover players like Lebron and Carmelo. We will never stop them from getting their 30+ points but we can make them work for it. KG and Pierce still have one more run left in them I believe, but they won't be effective if they are forced to play 30+ minutes.
I am also wondering what peoples thoughts are on Avery Bradley. Do we turn him into our backup PG or use him as a SG? Either way he will never give you outstanding offensive numbers, but he is good for 11-15 points per game.
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Re: Celtics

Unread post by SGreenwell »

Rhodyfan3, I wouldn't really be sold on Jefferson as the answer. He can score a bit, but he's not a great defender now, and I definitely wouldn't want to give him big money or a lot of years to come back. Most free agent centers attract insane offers, so I probably wouldn't want him unless the Celtics were able to sign him for a year or two at reasonable money.
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Re: Celtics

Unread post by rhodyfan3 »

That is a good point SGreenwell. Do you think they will take another run with the group they have now or will it all get blown up next season?
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Re: Celtics

Unread post by SGreenwell »

rhodyfan3 wrote:That is a good point SGreenwell. Do you think they will take another run with the group they have now or will it all get blown up next season?
I think they take one more run, because I don't know what their other options are. The best package floated out there for Garnett - Eric Bledsoe and DeAndre Jordan - isn't completely fair value in terms of replacing his talent, and even that rumored "trade" was allegedly never really on the table; it was something Boston pitched but the Clippers didn't seriously consider, allegedly. If you're moving Pierce or Garnett, you're probably going to get a mid-tier, fringe all-star talent in return.

Like, for example, would you want Rudy Gay? He has the reputation of being a star, but his actual numbers are iffy, and he's making a ton of money. He's decayed a bit, but most of the guys available are probably Joe Johnson types - Fine if they're your #3 option, but your team is going to take a dip going from the intensity and familiarity of Garnett / Pierce, and there's probably only a minor chance that you do improve substantial with Trade Target X in your lineup.

So, I think they might as well stand-pat and give it another go with the current roster, and hope that a healthy Rondo and Sullinger offsets the decay in Piece and Garnett's game. Ainge is a decent drafter of talent, so maybe he hits on another Rondo-like talent in the draft, or maybe Melo moves up from the D-League to the NBA and proves he can play. At some point, you do have to tear it down, but the owners do have some say in this. It's their money, so it's hard for me to say, "Well, heck, just pass up on a year of strong revenue so that you can rebuild a year earlier."
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Re: Celtics

Unread post by rhodyfan3 »

I am hoping they take one more run. Now there are talks about a big deal with KG and Pierce to the Clippers for Deandre Jordan, Caron Butler, and Jamal Crawford. I really don't see this happening but the conversation has seem to come up lately. And I even see rumors of Doc leaving and not being part of the rebuilding process which I would hate to see.

As for your question about Rudy Gay, the answer is no. I do not want Rudy Gay. He does not come off as a winner to me or as someone you can build around. So I agree, lets get healthy, grab a few more pieces and take one more run. Whether it succeeds or fails, you start fresh the next season and begin your rebuilding process.
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Re: Celtics

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

I laugh when local commentators say things like,
"Will Danny keep the Celts together for another championship run?"
Seriously, this team is lucky to get out of a first round, as composed.
Pierce thinks he's the same player he was in his prime.
He's a turnover machine, who always takes the last shot, and rarely makes it.
Garnett is still a good player, but nowhere near the intimidating figure he used to be.
He'll retire before he accepts a trade to LA., so, that's not happening.
Rondo is as fragile as Jacoby Ellsbury.
Time to let go of the past and start over.
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Re: Celtics

Unread post by ATPTourFan »

It's a shame they didn't win at least 2 titles with this group. Could have had 3 really.
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Re: Celtics

Unread post by rhodyfan3 »

ATPTourFan wrote:It's a shame they didn't win at least 2 titles with this group. Could have had 3 really.
Absolutely. Wish they won 2, they definitely had the talent for it.

Rod, I know it is time to rebuild but its hard to let it go. I am a little too optimistic I know but I would just love to see one more run. If they decide to break it all up, I won't be upset at all.

When you talk about rebuilding is that just getting ride of Pierce and KG or letting go of it all including Rondo and Doc?
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Re: Celtics

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

No, RF3, I love Doc.
Rondo could be a trade chip, for the right deal.
We know Danny has tried to trade him as recently as October.
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Re: Celtics

Unread post by SGreenwell »

I doubt Doc Rivers would want to go through another rebuild process, and it would be tough to blame him if he did ask to be let out of his contract if the Celtics went that way. His strength as a coach tends to be drawing up plays and coaching up veterans as opposed to developing younger talent, so I'm not sure the Celtics would want to keep him at $7 million a year to babysit a 20-62 team. (Also, if you ARE looking to bottom out for a high draft pick, it's probably better to employ a cheap "developmental" coach that might not accidentally keep you on the fringe of the playoff race...)

Rondo is entering Tyson Zone for me, in that any news about him wouldn't surprise me. Bill Simmons had Jason Collins on the other day, and Collins said Rondo is one of the best point guards and play-creators he's ever played with. However, he's a shockingly poor free throw shooter for a point guard, and who knows how he'll return from his injury? The issue with a trade is that his value is probably at a low right now, coming off the injury, and even best-case scenario you probably wouldn't get equal value for him.

So, I'd probably just keep Rondo, especially since his contract is very reasonable. He makes $12 million in 2013-14, and $13 million in 2014-15. At that point, you then have a more difficult decision to make, depending on how he's played. He'll be 29 and probably looking for a max deal.
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