Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brady?

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Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brady?

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

Lots of talk on the radio in recent weeks, have the Patriots done enough to surround Tom Brady with enough weapons to win one more Super Bowl? Are the Patriots as currently constituted good enough to win it all?

I say no. I think the Patriots are good enough to maintain status quo. Win the AFC East, compete for a bye, win a playoff game or two, get into the AFC Championship game, and then lose to a better Denver team.

Someone said it best early in the year. The Pats and Broncos clearly went after it a little in FA. Some called it an "arms" race. But can we rank the top 5 free agent signings between the two teams?

1) Revis (Pats)
2) Talib (Broncos)
3) Ware (Broncos)
4) Sanders (Broncos)
5) Ward (Broncos)

Broncos seemed to really spend to make themselves more competitive with the NFC teams. Patriots made one move which relatively replaced a piece from last season to try to keep up at the time with Denver who brought in Talib. They also brought in Browner, but think that move was overrated by some. Browner a physical depth player. Not the starting CB some led us to believe.

But now with injuries mounting for a team that is around $15 million under the cap, isn't it fair to question if the "Patriot" way is the best way? Or was Brady simply good enough to elevate their play in the past? Is Brady a big reason why we have seen the Patriot way good for 12+ wins, and a few Super Bowl appearances in the last decade?

I look at the roster now, I see no depth across the board. Yet all this money to spend. You obviously can't be loaded at every position or spend every dollar you have, but they got rid of guys like Mankins and Kelly over essentially $2.5 million. I believe Pats are still responsible for $4 million of Mankins on cap this season. Could still have plenty of cap flexibility, and more depth. But why would they do that?You could have Mankins, Kelly, Tim Wright, another decent LB or guy like Emmanuel Sanders, and still have had $8-$9 million still in the pocket.

I needed another place to rant. So someone please rant with me :D
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by TruePoint »

Probably not good enough today to win it all, but go back and look at past SB winners and see how many were clear favorites after week 7. Teams click at different times during the year. I think they have talent on defense to be better than they've been, even without Mayo. And on offense, no question Denver is better on paper. But if recent trends hold, I see an offense that could potentially put up 31-35 points against the Broncos in a playoff game. Throw in winning the turnover battle and that is a recipe to win the game. Maybe they wouldn't beat Denver in a best of seven, but in football you only need to beat them once.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by SGreenwell »

I think just getting to the playoffs is always the most important thing, and once you're there, well, it can be a kind of crapshoot - We aren't that far removed from the Cardinals being in the Super Bowl with an 8-8 team, if I recall correctly. As of now, the Pats are probably the clear favorites to win the AFC East, despite some hiccups early in the season and that blowout against Kansas City.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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I just think I'm down due to the not spending anywhere near the cap, and the issues in depth we are already seeing. There are some teams that struggle early but you say "Oh Player X and Y weren't playing early in the year they will be back." Reminds me of the Giants teams who struggled but picked up steam once they got some impact players back for the stretch run into the playoffs. The only impact guy on the Pats you could say that for was Gronk and he's near 100% now. Injuries affect every team, it just sucks when you have average players you are holding your breathe on. "Oh please Devin McCourty don't be injured." "Oh please Jamie Collins don't be injured." "Oh please Dan Connolly don't be injured." It makes me sick that we have to hold our breathe for players of this nature, good, but nothing near special, but if you lose them, will hurt because of the lack of talent behind them. You lose them, you have a bunch of undrafted rookies and no names chasing people around the field. You end up with Tuba Devey on the line. That's where my overall frustration has been.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

Stranger things have happened, but I don't see it.
Will Gronk make it through the season?
Will the Pats defense stop the run?
Will the Pats ever get a WR that can spread the field?
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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I don't think they're the favorite, but I do they they can win this year. They made the AFC championship game with Blount taking most of the carries over Ridley, and Gronkowski, Wilfork, and Mayo out most of the year. I don't see any reason they can't get back to force a rematch against Denver this year.

So what about Denver. The Patriots defense matches up relatively well for such a high powered offense. Match Revis up on Demaryius Thomas and Jamie Collins on Julius Thomas and use the rest of the defense for Emmanuel Sanders, the concussed corpse of Wes Welker, and Ronnie Hillman. And there's a lot of questions still surrounding Manning. Last year we had to play him when it was sunny and 60, do you really like him if the game takes place in cold weather? I'd take Brady in the poor conditions you're likely to encounter in January.

And let's look at the NFC. You've got Dallas, but then you've got Romo in the playoffs. The Eagles look good, but hardly unbeatable. Green Bay has a great offense but their defense is garbage. Detroit's defense is great, but their offense sucks without Calvin Johnson, and I like Revis matching up with him. We don't need to worry about anyone in the South right now. Arizona looks good, but their QB's are Carson Palmer and Drew Stanton, so they're certainly beatable and the 49ers and Seahawks have both been shaky so far.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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rjsuperfly66 wrote:I just think I'm down due to the not spending anywhere near the cap, and the issues in depth we are already seeing. There are some teams that struggle early but you say "Oh Player X and Y weren't playing early in the year they will be back." Reminds me of the Giants teams who struggled but picked up steam once they got some impact players back for the stretch run into the playoffs. The only impact guy on the Pats you could say that for was Gronk and he's near 100% now. Injuries affect every team, it just sucks when you have average players you are holding your breathe on. "Oh please Devin McCourty don't be injured." "Oh please Jamie Collins don't be injured." "Oh please Dan Connolly don't be injured." It makes me sick that we have to hold our breathe for players of this nature, good, but nothing near special, but if you lose them, will hurt because of the lack of talent behind them. You lose them, you have a bunch of undrafted rookies and no names chasing people around the field. You end up with Tuba Devey on the line. That's where my overall frustration has been.
But isn't that the very nature of the salary cap? Name one team that has good depth. It's easy to see the holes on your own team, but if we rooted for another team we'd be in the same boat as we are with the Patriots, praying an average player didn't get hurt because there would be a weak replacement. You need to cut back on the amount you listed to Felger and Mazz, they'll make you crazy.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by ramfan85 »

I'm with RJ on this. Watching Denver last night was scary. That's a team that did everything they had to to help their QB. They want to win it. The Pats look like they just want to be there.
The "Patriot Way" is very clear. Don't pay for talent, trade down to save money, get rid of any player with a personality and take every Rutgers player available.
Even the Jets are trying to improve their team. The Jets? I think with Harvin they'll have more problems than he's worth, though.
Now the Pats enter a new reality, so to speak. They play top teams. Their season could get very ugly very soon.
But, hey, all's not bad. Kraft is making a fortune.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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RhowdyRam02 wrote:
But isn't that the very nature of the salary cap? Name one team that has good depth. It's easy to see the holes on your own team, but if we rooted for another team we'd be in the same boat as we are with the Patriots, praying an average player didn't get hurt because there would be a weak replacement. You need to cut back on the amount you listed to Felger and Mazz, they'll make you crazy.
I agree to an extent that salary cap is meant to prevent sufficient depth across the board. My problem with the Pats is that they have some money to spend to make the team better, and they don't spend to win.

Injuries are part of football. I just haven't felt like the Patriots are adaquately prepared, it's like the dropoff is huge across the board. Lose a starter, get an undrafted rookie (or formerly undrafted rookie). Think of the dropoff -- Trade Logan Mankins over $2 million, get Jordan Devey (one of worst performing linemen in NFL who was undrafted, released player with no played games). It's things like that that baffle me.

You can't get away with the roster holes playing road playoff games in January that you can playing the crapbag AFC East in September.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by SGreenwell »

rjsuperfly66 wrote:
RhowdyRam02 wrote:
But isn't that the very nature of the salary cap? Name one team that has good depth. It's easy to see the holes on your own team, but if we rooted for another team we'd be in the same boat as we are with the Patriots, praying an average player didn't get hurt because there would be a weak replacement. You need to cut back on the amount you listed to Felger and Mazz, they'll make you crazy.
I agree to an extent that salary cap is meant to prevent sufficient depth across the board. My problem with the Pats is that they have some money to spend to make the team better, and they don't spend to win.

Injuries are part of football. I just haven't felt like the Patriots are adaquately prepared, it's like the dropoff is huge across the board. Lose a starter, get an undrafted rookie (or formerly undrafted rookie). Think of the dropoff -- Trade Logan Mankins over $2 million, get Jordan Devey (one of worst performing linemen in NFL who was undrafted, released player with no played games). It's things like that that baffle me.

You can't get away with the roster holes playing road playoff games in January that you can playing the crapbag AFC East in September.
The issue becomes one of talent evaluation though. The Pats might have evaluated Mankins wrong... But then again, I believe he was hurt early in the season, and he is on the back 9 of his career. Throughout Belichick's time in New England, he's subscribed to a Branch Rickey sort of philosophy, meaning that you trade or don't re-sign a player a year too early as opposed to a year too late. They looked cheap not signing Welker last year... But it looks like the Broncos aren't going to get much out of him this year.

Although NFL contracts aren't guaranteed, the "loser's curse" for free agency is still in play because you're tieing up cap money and paying penalties if you're signing guys to long-term deals and then cutting them. If you look at most FA contracts signed, the teams doing the signing end up regretting most of them. (The easiest example of this is with the really silly owners, like Daniel Synder in Washington, Al Davis in Oakland and Jerry Jones in Dallas.) I suspect this is why Seattle decided to get out from Harvin's contract now, even though he can still play. He's always an injury away though from missing a significant amount of time.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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SG, doesn't the talent evaluation work the other way as well though?

The fans and media all thought the Pats were scary thin up front.

But the staff sees the guys every day. They make sure to remind us that we aren't there every day.

If they thought they had the next guard in waiting or had great line depth, then I agree on moving a guy before it's too late. It's like moving on from Ty Law because you have Asante Samuel. You move on from great, but you have young, good, and promising step in.

My problem with the Patriots (and again I'm not there everyday) is that a move like Mankins, it seems more like monetary dump first, figure out the pieces second. They didn't announce his replacement right away, it was more of a gametime week 1 decision. And the production from the position has illustrated that, below average. At best with healthy personnel, the Patriots offensive line is now average, always one injury away from below average play.

I don't think Mankins is the savior this season, but he's one more talented body, and he's better than one they are putting in there. Plus, he still hits the cap for $4 million this season instead of $6 or $6.5. When you have upwards of $15 million in cap space, it's a frustrating thing for fans who feel they are a few smaller pieces away.

I don't want to see them spend like crazy or put themselves in "cap jail," but I want them to spend where necessary and spent to acceptable limits. If you make a move for Mankins for cap reasons, or Kelly requests a trade because he feels they are screwing with his incentives, but you have plenty of room to spend, it makes me think you are cheap. So it's either Kraft making a stink about having to pay for dead money, or BB thinks he can still work miracles with lesser parts, but either way, what they are doing hasn't led to a Championship in 10 years despite being on the doorstep for most of that.

I'll happily admit to being a "spoiled" Pats fan, but it would suck (and has sucked) to be like the Atlanta Braves of the NFL. Win lot of regular season games, but not get it done in the playoffs.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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I find using Mankins as an example funny. When he was picked fans went nuts because they never heard of him and the Mel Kipers of the world thought he was a reach. Then he turns into a Pro Bowl caliber lineman and people love him. Now people are up in arms again, but because he's gone. But lets be honest, you can make a case that Mankins performance in the first Giants Super Bowl is why they lost that one, pass rush coming from the middle has derailed the offense in general over the last few years, which he is in large part responsible for, and he's only going to be getting worse. In a league that's moving more toward passing, a great run blocking/mediocre at best pass blocking guard is not a good piece to have.

Also, a large part of the reason they didn't announce who was going to replace him right away is because they didn't know if Connolly and/or Wendell would be healthy enough to go. Those are his real replacements, and when they're healthy along with Stork, Devey goes back to a back up role.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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RhowdyRam02 wrote: and he's only going to be getting worse. In a league that's moving more toward passing, a great run blocking/mediocre at best pass blocking guard is not a good piece to have.
I agree, but

a) What's wrong with having a little depth?
b) Was Mankins getting worse still better than what they had?

I'd rather have Wendell or Connolly as backups, than Devey, Kline, or Cannon.

If Devey became the next coming of an All-Pro, they'd make sure to slam it down our throats. Instead, he shows little signs of being anything more than a below average lineman.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by banderson1311 »

Long time lurker. I love Rhody hoops (and continue to attend the football beatings) but usually don't have a lot to add beyond what you guys have already said. Making an exception here because this take contains several Felgerish talking points that drive me nuts. Nothing personal, ramfan85.
ramfan85 wrote:I'm with RJ on this. Watching Denver last night was scary. That's a team that did everything they had to to help their QB. They want to win it. The Pats look like they just want to be there.
I'd caution you on allowing the last game you saw shape your opinion too much although Denver does look good right now. In a couple of years all these aggressive moves they've made are going to leave them in a bad place. You could make the "Who cares? They're going for it now" argument. But really, how much does" going for it" increase their odds of winning the Super Bowl, 5-10%? It's a one game elimination tournament where the best team usually doesn't win. Is that worth mortgaging your future for?
ramfan85 wrote:The "Patriot Way" is very clear. Don't pay for talent, trade down to save money, get rid of any player with a personality and take every Rutgers player available.
Brady, Wilfork, Mayo, Moss, Revis, Mankins, Gronkowski, and many more have all been paid very well. What they refuse to do is pay more than they feel a player is worth. Are they sometimes wrong? Sure, but they've been right more.

Studies have shown that trading down is the most effective way to draft. Basically it amounts to increasing the number of lottery tickets you hold since no one (not even Mel Kiper) really knows how good any of these guys will be at the next level.

As far as personalities, Randy Moss, Rodney Harrison, Ty Law and many others had public personalities so I'm not sure what the issue is there.

They have drafted a lot of Rutgers guys, which is kind of odd. At least most of them have worked out pretty well.
ramfan85 wrote:Even the Jets are trying to improve their team. The Jets? I think with Harvin they'll have more problems than he's worth, though.
Now the Pats enter a new reality, so to speak. They play top teams. Their season could get very ugly very soon.
But, hey, all's not bad. Kraft is making a fortune.
If you don't think Belichick is trying to improve the team then I'm not sure what to tell you.

As others have said the key is to make the playoffs. Look at the 2005 Steelers, the 2006 Colts, the 2007 Giants, the 2008 Cardinals, the 2010 Packers, the 2011 Giants, the 2012 Ravens. None of those teams looked great going into the playoffs but each team got hot when it mattered.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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rjsuperfly66 wrote:
RhowdyRam02 wrote: and he's only going to be getting worse. In a league that's moving more toward passing, a great run blocking/mediocre at best pass blocking guard is not a good piece to have.
I agree, but

a) What's wrong with having a little depth?
b) Was Mankins getting worse still better than what they had?

I'd rather have Wendell or Connolly as backups, than Devey, Kline, or Cannon.

If Devey became the next coming of an All-Pro, they'd make sure to slam it down our throats. Instead, he shows little signs of being anything more than a below average lineman.
I believe Mankins' large salary played a role there. They felt his value no longer matched what he was being paid and the money would be needed to potentially pay out bonuses later this season and could go towards signing Revis long term. Also, he hasn't done much yet, but they liked the guy they got in return a bit (and he went to Rutgers).
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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1) I agree that Mankins was overpaid. That much for a guard in the first place was crazy, that much for an aging guard even crazier. But I think that falls on when the contract was given, rather than the present. They haven't wiped his money off their books, they are still accounting for $4 million of it ($4 million this year; $4 million next year). To me, spending that extra $2 million makes sense when you don't have strong line depth and you have cap space to play with. If you were wiping his money completely from the books, I'd probably feel differently.

2) Tim Wright - The myth is that the Pats had to send Mankins to get Tim Wright. In Tampa, Wright had become TE3, and some believe he was on the verge of being cut due to the fact the TE they kept (Stocker) was a blocking TE. They could have gotten Wright for a late-round pick, if they even needed that. IMHO, the move was about clearing some money, rather than getting Wright.

3) The Patriots should have a ton of money to play with in the offseason. If I had to bet, the Patriots will not use all of this carryover money, and will still be $10+ million over the cap next season. There are a lot of cut/restucture candidates for the Patriots (Mayo, Solder, Wilfork, Browner) that should open up sufficient space, in addition to an expected cap increase of ~ $10 million. More than enough room to sign Revis, don't get the panic and requirement to have $15 million to carry over to make it happen. Don't want them spending to $0, but don't think they had to to address the few depth issues they had. Could have made a 4-5 more moves, had a little more depth, and had $8 million or so to spare.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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rjsuperfly66 wrote:1) I agree that Mankins was overpaid. That much for a guard in the first place was crazy, that much for an aging guard even crazier. But I think that falls on when the contract was given, rather than the present. They haven't wiped his money off their books, they are still accounting for $4 million of it ($4 million this year; $4 million next year). To me, spending that extra $2 million makes sense when you don't have strong line depth and you have cap space to play with. If you were wiping his money completely from the books, I'd probably feel differently.

2) Tim Wright - The myth is that the Pats had to send Mankins to get Tim Wright. In Tampa, Wright had become TE3, and some believe he was on the verge of being cut due to the fact the TE they kept (Stocker) was a blocking TE. They could have gotten Wright for a late-round pick, if they even needed that. IMHO, the move was about clearing some money, rather than getting Wright.

3) The Patriots should have a ton of money to play with in the offseason. If I had to bet, the Patriots will not use all of this carryover money, and will still be $10+ million over the cap next season. There are a lot of cut/restucture candidates for the Patriots (Mayo, Solder, Wilfork, Browner) that should open up sufficient space, in addition to an expected cap increase of ~ $10 million. More than enough room to sign Revis, don't get the panic and requirement to have $15 million to carry over to make it happen. Don't want them spending to $0, but don't think they had to to address the few depth issues they had. Could have made a 4-5 more moves, had a little more depth, and had $8 million or so to spare.
Don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said, but I'm assuming that they have a football reason for why they needed that extra money even if I don't know what it is. I can't imagine that it's to line Kraft's pockets as the Felger Youth would have you believe.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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Many people think these personnel decisions are made solely to improve Krafts bottom line. I disagree. I think he knows that the best way to improve a bottom line is to win championships.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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banderson1311 wrote:
rjsuperfly66 wrote:1) I agree that Mankins was overpaid. That much for a guard in the first place was crazy, that much for an aging guard even crazier. But I think that falls on when the contract was given, rather than the present. They haven't wiped his money off their books, they are still accounting for $4 million of it ($4 million this year; $4 million next year). To me, spending that extra $2 million makes sense when you don't have strong line depth and you have cap space to play with. If you were wiping his money completely from the books, I'd probably feel differently.

2) Tim Wright - The myth is that the Pats had to send Mankins to get Tim Wright. In Tampa, Wright had become TE3, and some believe he was on the verge of being cut due to the fact the TE they kept (Stocker) was a blocking TE. They could have gotten Wright for a late-round pick, if they even needed that. IMHO, the move was about clearing some money, rather than getting Wright.

3) The Patriots should have a ton of money to play with in the offseason. If I had to bet, the Patriots will not use all of this carryover money, and will still be $10+ million over the cap next season. There are a lot of cut/restucture candidates for the Patriots (Mayo, Solder, Wilfork, Browner) that should open up sufficient space, in addition to an expected cap increase of ~ $10 million. More than enough room to sign Revis, don't get the panic and requirement to have $15 million to carry over to make it happen. Don't want them spending to $0, but don't think they had to to address the few depth issues they had. Could have made a 4-5 more moves, had a little more depth, and had $8 million or so to spare.
Don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said, but I'm assuming that they have a football reason for why they needed that extra money even if I don't know what it is. I can't imagine that it's to line Kraft's pockets as the Felger Youth would have you believe.
I think their mindset, which can definitely be frustrating if you're a fan, is that they're not just going to spend money for the sake of spending money. Yes, a veteran offensive lineman at $2M to be a back-up provides more certainty than using an undrafted free agent. However: 1) There is the opportunity cost of not rostering the younger player; more variance in non-veterans. 2) Oftentimes, you're just burning the $2M on a barely playable guy, to avoid playing a bad player at $500k. (Or whatever the minimum salary is nowadays.)
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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banderson1311 wrote:Don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said, but I'm assuming that they have a football reason for why they needed that extra money even if I don't know what it is. I can't imagine that it's to line Kraft's pockets as the Felger Youth would have you believe.
I can tell a lot of people on here listen to Felger, you guys might appreciate this fake Twitter account:

https://twitter.com/WWIIFelger
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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Felger is a total contrarian, much like Ron Borges is.
He takes a view that he knows will draw the ire of people,
and uses it for attention to get people talking about him
and listening to him with old lady Mazz.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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I'm with you Rod. Felger and Mazz are unlistenable.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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Thoughts?
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

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I think the thing I came out of today most surprised about was the rush defense. The front 7 didn't get a ton of consistent pressure on Manning, but they bottled up the run game and forced the Broncos into more longer 2nd and 3rd downs, which plays more to their strength of preferring zone across the field.

As for everything else, my thoughts have changed slightly. I still am disappointed with the monetary commitment, but healthy Gronk with a healthy 5 line have shown enough that it's a SB capable offense. Defensively, feel relatively similar. The current pieces are good enough. Now if they lose Gronk? Their offense goes from top of the league, back down near the bottom. I cringe when I watch him take some of these hits.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

Is anyone more fun to watch than Gronk in the open field?
Those DBs must cringe seeing him freight training at them.
Maybe this game helps quiet those who think Manning's stats make him
the greatest ever.
Sorry winning big games is what makes greatness.
A lot of this talk happened after he passed Brett Farve for the most TD passes.
Would anyone in their right mind consider Favre the greatest ever?
Manning to me is the NFL's version of ARod or Barry Bonds.
Super regular season stats, and mediocre post season stats.
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rjsuperfly66
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

Gronk is dynamic, watching him healthy is a blessing. I'll take healthy Gronk over any TE and most WR's in football. The issue with Gronk, fairly or unfairly, is the questions with his durability. I'd have to believe that if you took the games Gronk has been at or near 100%, and the games where he has been out or no where near healthy, Brady's passer rating has to be 30 to 40 points higher when he is healthy. But when you miss the important parts of the last 3 seasons, people are gonna ask, can he do it?
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by Rhody74 »

When I saw Gronk's athletic catch at the 1, I was concerned he might hurt something coming down. Fortunately, that didn't seem to happen. I still hold my breath whenever he gets hit hard.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by SGreenwell »

This NFL.com podcaster I like, Dave Dameshek, has this concept called Jenga blocks for NFL teams. Meaning, non-QBs, what player could a team least afford to use? Right now for the Patriots, I think it's clear that player is Gronk. With him at 100 percent, they're a clear Super Bowl contender. Without him at full health, they're just another team. (And obviously, the Pats also don't have Hernandez because of his despicable off-field behavior, which poses its own "what if?" ramifications.)
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

Obviously the biggest difference between Sunday night and the AFC championship game was the presence of Rob Gronkowski, but another big key was the interior of the line. Last year, in part because of Logan Mankins' terrible play, Terrance Knighton terrorized the Patriots offense. He had 4 tackles, 1 sack, one stuffed run and it seemed like the pocket collapsed a lot from the inside, which is Brady's kryptonite. Sunday night Knighton was invisible with only one tackle and the pressure was really only coming from the ends, which allowed Brady to step up and deliver solid throws even when the Broncos were able to get pressure.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

RhowdyRam02 wrote: Last year, in part because of Logan Mankins' terrible play, Terrance Knighton terrorized the Patriots offense. He had 4 tackles, 1 sack, one stuffed run and it seemed like the pocket collapsed a lot from the inside, which is Brady's kryptonite.
The biggest difference this year, IMHO, has little to do with the line. The line play has improved from the start of the season, but is still nothing more than average. The biggest difference is that Brady has finally learned that if he wants to sit like a statue in the pocket, he's going to get crushed because the line isn't that good, and he's gotten "mobile." His movement inside and outside of the pocket is as big a reason for their recent success as Gronk getting back to 100%. He's creating more time for himself and others, and it's making a huge difference. It also helps negate the affect of a guy like Knighton who makes his money pushing the pocket and creating havoc in the middle.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by rambone 78 »

Well, let's not anoint the Pats as SB champs just yet.

That game wasn't as close as the score indicates.

They should still win the AFC and get there, as long as Gronk stays healthy.

The Pats defense is just like usual. Give up a ton of yards, bend but not break. However, they let the Packers control the ball for long stretches.

Keeping Brady off the field is the only way to beat them.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by banderson1311 »

We really are true New England fans, huh? The team kills 3 straight division leaders and not one post until they finally lose. :D

I would guess that like every year they should be one of the last 4 teams and then it's a coin flip from there.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

I thought it was a great game.
Two of the best teams and QBs going at it.
Very clean game and not a lot of after the play antics.
Aaron Rodgers is clearly the best in the NFL.
Nobody does more things, and he has the best and most accurate arm.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by TruePoint »

If the game was in Foxboro they'd have won. They are no more or no less SB favorites than they were before yesterday's game. Two very good team went at it and somebody had to win. Yesterday it was GB. Hats off to them.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by ramfan85 »

I agree, TP. I expected GB to win. I thought both teams played hard. It was a great game to watch. I'd love to see them play again in Feb. It was good playing a team that didn't look for cheap shots and didn't celebrate after a touchdown or second quarter sack. I don't mind the Lambeau leap at all.
Unfortunately, they can't afford another loss and keep home field advantage. They won't win in Denver.
Unlike the Boston tv talking heads, I think every game is going to be tough. Believe i or not, I'm even worried about the jets game. They always play the Pats tough and are due for a win, just like the Pats were due for a loss.
I don't know how Sunday's game will go. I do know 2 things that will happen. Brady will try the bomb again and sail the ball 20 yards over the receiver's head. The color man will undoubtedly say the receiver ran the wrong pattern. And. Solder will miss a block leading to a sack that might kill Brady. Oh, a third thing, Browner will get a penalty after a third down stop, giving an automatic first down.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by ramfan85 »

So glad to have this Jets game behind us. it went pretty much as I expected. A rock fight. I was more worried about this game than any other this year. Not at all pretty, but a win.
I think this game did show how fragile this team is regarding backups on the O-line and secondary.
All year the Pats have been able to cover up Chung's inability to cover in pass defense. Logan Ryan is getting worse. How bad must Dennard be? (I don't know if he's injured).
One missing piece from the O-line and this team is susceptible to be beaten by anyone. I wouldn't mind if they use all of their draft picks on offensive linemen this year.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by ramfan85 »

Thank you, Cincinnati.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by rambone 78 »

Beginning to look like Seattle vs. NE in the SB. Imo anyway.

The Seahags are dominant on D again. The Pats will have their work cut out for them, they have a chance though.

Unfortunately for all you Pats fans, Brady goes down again, maybe for the final time, in a SB.

At least it should be closer than that mismatch last February.

Oh by the way, wait 'till next year, Cowpokes. There's no way they beat Seattle a 2nd time at their place.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by ramfan85 »

Now that the playoffs are here, who do Pats fans want to play in 2 weeks?
I'm hoping for Cincy or Indy. I don't want any part of Baltimore. Bad vibes with them. They won't be intimidated coming here.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by gorhody89 »

rambone 78 wrote:Beginning to look like Seattle vs. NE in the SB. Imo anyway.

The Seahags are dominant on D again. The Pats will have their work cut out for them, they have a chance though.

Unfortunately for all you Pats fans, Brady goes down again, maybe for the final time, in a SB.

At least it should be closer than that mismatch last February.

Oh by the way, wait 'till next year, Cowpokes. There's no way they beat Seattle a 2nd time at their place.

If anyone can win @ Seattle it is Dallas...

8-0 on the road this season with one of those wins being @ Seattle in a game they totally dominated more than the score indicated...not saying it is going to happen(gotta beat Detroit and win @Lambeau first) but you can't say no way especially with the way they are clicking right now
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by TruePoint »

Seattle is a different team away from home. Fortunately the SB isn't in Seattle. I'm much more worried about getting to Arizona than I am with who we would play if we got there.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by ramfan85 »

Well, now we know who the Pats will be playing. Thanks, Pittsburgh. This is the one team i didn't want to see in the playoffs and in NE. Horrible matchups. Plus, the ugliest unis.
If the O-line isn't good, the Pats will be in trouble, again. This team isn't going to be intimidated by playing in Foxboro.
The Broncos will have the easier game, IMHO.
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Re: Are the Patriots Good Enough to Win Another SB with Brad

Unread post by UCH21377 »

I wouldn't be shocked if Indy beats Denver. Denver is not playing well right now.
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