Are for-profit colleges "real" schools?

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TruePoint
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Are for-profit colleges "real" schools?

Unread post by TruePoint »

Grand Canyon is a school? And Thunder Dan Majerle is their coach??
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Rhody74
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Re: Monitoring NCAA Transfers

Unread post by Rhody74 »

We are visiting the Grand Canyon on Thur s day (the big hole). I will check to see if there's a college nearby.
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Re: Monitoring NCAA Transfers

Unread post by adam914 »

TruePoint wrote:Grand Canyon is a school? And Thunder Dan Majerle is their coach??
They play their commercials out here all the time, and they are hilarious. Thunder Dan is a big part of it. I'm still not sure its a real school though. It all feels so made up.
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Re: Monitoring NCAA Transfers

Unread post by SmartyBarrett »

Their nickname is apparently the Lopes. Named after a Portuguese man from Cranston, no doubt.
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bressler3south
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Re: Monitoring NCAA Transfers

Unread post by bressler3south »

It is a real school. And one of the few self-declared "For Profit" Colleges/Universities in the World.
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Re: Monitoring NCAA Transfers

Unread post by adam914 »

bressler3south wrote:It is a real school. And one of the few self-declared "For Profit" Colleges/Universities in the World.
Yep, also an interesting note. It just gives me the feeling that if you showed up on campus it would be a bunch of actors who were paid to pretend to be students and act like they really went there for the day.
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TruePoint
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Re: Monitoring NCAA Transfers

Unread post by TruePoint »

You cannot be a "real" school and a for-profit school. Those things are mutually exclusive (in my mind, and in the mind of most educators and people who care about education).
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Re: Monitoring NCAA Transfers

Unread post by bressler3south »

TruePoint wrote:You cannot be a "real" school and a for-profit school. Those things are mutually exclusive (in my mind, and in the mind of most educators and people who care about education).
Thanks for your opinions about edjumacashun, TP.

Sorta like comparing URI and Brown in the Endowment Sweepstakes……

Or the graceful model versus the clod…..
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Re: Monitoring NCAA Transfers

Unread post by Da_Process_Survivor »

TruePoint wrote:You cannot be a "real" school and a for-profit school. Those things are mutually exclusive (in my mind, and in the mind of most educators and people who care about education).
every school is for profit, some just admit it.
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TruePoint
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Re: Monitoring NCAA Transfers

Unread post by TruePoint »

Da_Process_Survivor wrote:
TruePoint wrote:You cannot be a "real" school and a for-profit school. Those things are mutually exclusive (in my mind, and in the mind of most educators and people who care about education).
every school is for profit, some just admit it.
That isn't true. Running schools, especially good ones with robust research missions, is expensive. So school isn't free. But nobody is getting rich owning a school, which is what for-profit means. Harvard has a huge endowment and there is lot of money floating around there. But there are no Harvard shareholders splitting up that money. Profit isn't another way of saying "makes money," it has a specific meaning.
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Re: Monitoring NCAA Transfers

Unread post by Running Ram »

TruePoint wrote:
Da_Process_Survivor wrote:
TruePoint wrote:You cannot be a "real" school and a for-profit school. Those things are mutually exclusive (in my mind, and in the mind of most educators and people who care about education).
every school is for profit, some just admit it.
That isn't true. Running schools, especially good ones with robust research missions, is expensive. So school isn't free. But nobody is getting rich owning a school, which is what for-profit means. Harvard has a huge endowment and there is lot of money floating around there. But there are no Harvard shareholders splitting up that money. Profit isn't another way of saying "makes money," it has a specific meaning.
I'm not about to get into a discussion on semantics here, but we all know what was meant by 'profit' in DPS' response, it didn't require any clarification at all. AND it is true - "after all the costs and expenses are paid : a financial gain is resulting." And that is the meaning of profit as it applies to DPS' comment, which was when the word play began as DPS' response was about schools profiting, not about schools running as 'for vs. non-profit or not-for-profit' organizations. But thanks for acting like we're all too dim-witted to understand the difference. Now if you really wanted to enlighten us with something new you would explain the difference between 'non and not for' - profit, but please do this in a separate thread because my amusement over your latest schooling of the dim-witted is ebbing.
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Re: Are for-profit colleges "real" schools?

Unread post by TruePoint »

RR, I'm not sure what I said that you're taking as calling people "dim-witted," but I was only trying to point out that when you're talking about legal entity classifications, there is a clear difference between being for-profit and non-profit. In my family, I am not the expert on tax exempt organizations (that would be my wife), and I don't have my Internal Revenue Code on me at the moment, but I know enough to say that you either qualify for tax exempt status under IRC section 501 or you don't. By definition, "for-profits" don't. And since institutions whose primary mission is scientific or educational are explicitly identified in the code, it follows that an institution that does not qualify does not have either of those as its primary mission.

If you talk to people in education policy, there is near universal condemnation of these for-profit "schools" as predatory. Often they aren't accredited and charge people a good amount of money for a degree which is essentially worthless. I am NOT trying to fight with anyone about this or call any dim witted or anything else. And I don't think I have. All I did was give my opinion and then defended it when I was challenged.
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Re: Are for-profit colleges "real" schools?

Unread post by Seawrightspostgame »

I think the "for profits" are predatory. The rest that maintain the traditional designation are still a big business and can be exploitive.
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Re: Are for-profit colleges "real" schools?

Unread post by TruePoint »

Totally agree with that. Colleges aren't altruistic, by any stretch. My point was only that the distinction between for-profit and not-for-profit is not a philosophical one or a subjective one; it is a legal classification with a very specific criteria. There are a lot of people who think many law schools are unethical in charging such exorbitant tuition knowing that many of the students from their schools struggle after they graduate to find jobs that make the tuition a good investment. That is an example of traditional educational institutions acting badly and putting the bottom line above the best interests of the student. But that still doesn't mean they are for-profit.
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Re: Are for-profit colleges "real" schools?

Unread post by PlayMikeMotenMore »

True Point...your arugment is well articulated and backed up with facts. I'm with you.
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Re: Are for-profit colleges "real" schools?

Unread post by Running Ram »

Seawrightspostgame wrote:I think the "for profits" are predatory. The rest that maintain the traditional designation are still a big business and can be exploitive.
This is all DPS was talking about right here ^

Dearest TP,
There was word play that apparently was missed or purposely ignored, the difference between 'for profit' and 'for-profit', you get it? DPS was moving beyond legal definitions and into the real world, the world in which Harvard has, makes, spends and continues to accrue wealth most can only imagine. I'd bet many non-profit schools can run on interest accrued and give every student a year free tuition without even a slight hiccup. It's not that you call anyone "dim-witted" or write those words, but you boldly claim someone is wrong when you don't realize they aren't arguing for or against your point, they have moved beyond legal terms and down to bottom lines. These institutions are big businesses, they all profit or they go away, these statements are impeccable. DPS is not wrong in the stating "every school is for profit, some just admit it." yet, you boldly state "That isn't true." when in fact it is true, you go on to explain what most of us know about the legal phrase 'for-profit.' Tell us something we don't know. Find one school of continuing education that is not about making a profit and I'll rub stinging nettles in my eyes. You can't do it. and I think you know why.
Specifically to the tone of your response, had you responded to DPS by saying "That is true," but yadda yadda yadda, you know then give your less than informative legal distinctions, that would be just fine, because you would be identifying the fact that you understand DPS is talking about real world profit, wealth acquirement. Again it was word play and I'm sure DPS knows the difference between the legal 'for-profit' vs. what it means for an institution to profit.
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Re: Are for-profit colleges "real" schools?

Unread post by TruePoint »

:roll: Oh man. I could spend 6,000 words trying to explain to you what you are missing here (which you will inevitably argue back against whether you get it or not), but I'd rather be golfing. I'm not interested in people inventing their own definitions for words in a context where their meaning is very specific. If DPS feels personally hurt and insulted by a simple disagreement over the definition of the word profit in the context of "for-profit" colleges, let him explain that to me. Personally I feel like you're grinding some other kind of ax here and I don't understand it, nor do I want to participate in it.
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Re: Are for-profit colleges "real" schools?

Unread post by Running Ram »

I doubt DPS feels hurt or personally offended. I'm not missing anything my friend, I get what non-profit, for-profit and not-for-profit means. I've handled not-for-profit budgets with thousands of line items. You're good in you desire to abandon this thread and golf as I would submit it is you who are missing the simple fact that DPS was not talking about non, not-for, or for-profit business models, it was mere word play, it may have been too subtle for some I guess. Either way DPS' statement was true, you can write 12,000 words, it won't change the fact that DPS' statement was true. Have a good round! 8-)
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Re: Are for-profit colleges "real" schools?

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

Why is this thread still in NCAA of Bust?
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Re: Are for-profit colleges "real" schools?

Unread post by DeanDome88 »

I do not have a dog in this fight but will share my opinion.

As a potential consumer of education, I need to compare the cost of the education versus the value of the education received. I would not give a care or concern to the tax status of the educational institution.

Many very wealthy people realize they get more bang for their buck in increasing their personal power by having control of non profit organizations.
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Re: Are for-profit colleges "real" schools?

Unread post by bressler3south »

Running Ram wrote:I doubt DPS feels hurt or personally offended. I'm not missing anything my friend, I get what non-profit, for-profit and not-for-profit means. I've handled not-for-profit budgets with thousands of line items. You're good in you desire to abandon this thread and golf as I would submit it is you who are missing the simple fact that DPS was not talking about non, not-for, or for-profit business models, it was mere word play, it may have been too subtle for some I guess. Either way DPS' statement was true, you can write 12,000 words, it won't change the fact that DPS' statement was true. Have a good round! 8-)
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