Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

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Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 8 months ago

This story is by Mark Blaudshun, who I believe was at the beginning of the Big East split rumors back in 2013 ...

It has gone from an idea to a discussion at the upper levels, but far from a serious plan, but it continues to be a prime topic of discussion at conference meetings.

According to several sources throughout the league, the American Athletic Conference is looking for a way to upgrade its rankings in basketball with an expansion blueprint focused primarily on Wichita State, but also including other higher profile basketball schools such as Dayton and Virginia Commonwealth.

Wichita’s interest in moving out of the Missouri Valley Conference first became public last fall when there was chatter about the Shockers contacting the American as a possible landing place for football if plans to revive the football program were instituted. The school discontinued the football program because of financial reasons in 1986.

The Wichita State basketball program has filled the gap, establishing itself as a perennial power in the MVC.

But in December published reports stated that the Wichita was the focus of the American’s interest in upgrading its basketball profile. American officials downplayed the reports as nothing more than chatter.

But offiicials at some member schools, including UConn, felt that the American needed to increase its basketball profile. Talks about adding affiliated members in basketball, but not football, continued, reportedly with discussions taking place at the Presidential level. The rest of this article is available to subscribers only – to become a subscriber click here.

https://tmgcollegesports.com/2017/03/01 ... ade-hoops/
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC After VCU, Dayton, Others

Unread postby ramster » 8 months ago

The AAC is a turnstile league. Always teams coming and going. And very spread geographically. I'll just continue to enjoy the season than get involved in this kind of speculation.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 8 months ago

My honest reaction is why would anyone join the AAC ... There are decent names at the top of the conference, but not a ton of money and not much incentive, honestly. Why would Dayton and VCU leave the rivalries and passion of their current conference? Are games against UCONN, SMU, Cincinnati, and potentially Wichita St. that appealing?

The only reason to take notice is the source, but it seems like it's a rumor in the infancy stage.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby rhodysurf » 8 months ago

VCU fans are fucking hyped about this. They really think that the A10 screws them over (somehow) and that they are held down by the A10 already. They have gotten 7 straight NCAA bids IDK what more they are missing other than a conference without bottom dwellers which the AAC also has plenty of.

https://www.vcuramnation.com/forums/thr ... aac.16710/
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby josephski » 8 months ago

rhodysurf wrote:VCU fans are fucking hyped about this. They really think that the A10 screws them over (somehow) and that they are held down by the A10 already. They have gotten 7 straight NCAA bids IDK what more they are missing other than a conference without bottom dwellers which the AAC also has plenty of.

https://www.vcuramnation.com/forums/thr ... aac.16710/


Whenever I read VCU fan's posts online I always get the sense they feel really entitled like they should be treated better than everyone else in the league. One guy in that thread even said, "heck, we're looking like a two bid league this season with us and them being the likeliest teams to dance (at this point...and hopefully it stays that way).". I don't understand why anyone would have that attitude about the league they're in, they should want us to make the tournament so the league looks better.

I will admit though, every VCU fan I talked to at the game last weekend was very nice.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby ramfan85 » 8 months ago

rhodysurf wrote:VCU fans are fucking hyped about this. They really think that the A10 screws them over (somehow) and that they are held down by the A10 already. They have gotten 7 straight NCAA bids IDK what more they are missing other than a conference without bottom dwellers which the AAC also has plenty of.

https://www.vcuramnation.com/forums/thr ... aac.16710/


I certainly hope that most VCU fans don't feel that way Reminds me of how West Virginia fans used to feel entitled.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby rambone 78 » 8 months ago

If VCU and Dayton were to flee the A10......what would be left would be at best a 2 bid conference.

12 teams with too much dreck at the bottom.......and forget an enhanced TV contract......

St. Louis could go, too.....What about UMass?

Overall I think it's a long shot to happen, but still.....what would URI do if this happens? Or what could they do?

UConn and Cincy want out of the AAC, badly. I think it's just a matter of time before they leave. If that happens, I doubt VCU and Dayton would leave the A10.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby rhodysurf » 8 months ago

FWIW Dayton fans want no part of the AAC from ehat I can see. They want the Big East or to stay where they are
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby PeterRamTime » 8 months ago

Wichita should just come on over to the A-10
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby woodennickel1 » 8 months ago

rhodysurf wrote:FWIW Dayton fans want no part of the AAC from ehat I can see. They want the Big East or to stay where they are



Can not say I blame them AAC is a trainwreck.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby steviep123 » 8 months ago

If UConn and Cincy are looking for a hoops league, let's bring them in the A10.

But I'm getting sick of other leagues ransacking the A10! Enough already!
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby woodennickel1 » 8 months ago

steviep123 wrote:If UConn and Cincy are looking for a hoops league, let's bring them in the A10.

But I'm getting sick of other leagues ransacking the A10! Enough already!


They need a place for their football teams to play is the problem. AAC would not allow them to play football without the hoops. UCONN wants back in the big East but the big east is not going there again after they went thru with what Uconn did last time.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby steviep123 » 8 months ago

woodennickel1 wrote:
steviep123 wrote:If UConn and Cincy are looking for a hoops league, let's bring them in the A10.

But I'm getting sick of other leagues ransacking the A10! Enough already!


They need a place for their football teams to play is the problem. AAC would not allow them to play football without the hoops. UCONN wants back in the big East but the big east is not going there again after they went thru with what Uconn did last time.


Agreed - it's smart of the Big East to remain with teams without high level div 1 football (I know 'Nova is FCS, I don't think Prov or SH have football and I have no idea of the other 7 teams, but I don't think any of them have FBS teams).

A10 other than UMass do not have FBS to my knowledge. Let's keep it that way. Before the ACC took all those Big East teams away, the Big East was going to be a 21 or so team basketball league with San Diego State and was it Tulsa joining too? That would have been unmanageable. I think a 10 team league with a double round robin is perfect. Like the BE is now (along with the Big 12 and probably others) and the A10 was.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby BleedBlue87 » 8 months ago

If that was to happen, and I don't think it will, it would pretty much destroy the A10.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 8 months ago

Many Wichita fans seem to be pushing for this, there are a lot of people in that area who weren't too happy with the way Wichita has been treated the past few years, stating about it's all about their conference and no matter who they beat and how bad they beat them they've been penalized with poor seedings and the fact they've even had to think about if they would make the tournament is a joke, that the conversation should be about where they are seeded and not if they make it.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby JakeLevin477 » 8 months ago

UConn and/or Cincinnati are off to the ACC the second that becomes realistic. It might not be until 2024-25, when the Big 12's Grant of Right's deal expires (which will create a trickle-down effect across the landscape), but the American will truly be nothing more than old-school Conference-USA by then.

Without football, Dayton and VCU don't have much of an incentive to leave. Say what you will about Duquesne and Fordham, but the American will raise you a Tulane and UCF.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 8 months ago

Could the A10 look to swoop in on Wichita State before the AAC makes a decision? That would help to solidify the western part of the league.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby Shaolin Swat » 8 months ago

RhowdyRam02 wrote:Could the A10 look to swoop in on Wichita State before the AAC makes a decision? That would help to solidify the western part of the league.


That's what I was thinking. I'd like to see the A10 go on the offensive and work to bolster the league, protecting itself a little bit more during the next round of conference realignment (whenever that is).
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby steviep123 » 8 months ago

I would like this very much. If we could dump Duquesne and Fordham while we are at it, even better.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby JakeLevin477 » 8 months ago

http://www.courant.com/sports/basketbal ... story.html

If the American were willing, it could certainly become a great basketball league with Wichita, UConn, Cincy, Temple, Memphis plus Dayton and VCU. But it's pretty clear in the comments Aresco makes that's not happening.

Wichita to the A10 actually makes a great deal of sense, geography aside, especially if UMass does something stupid like move all its teams to the American.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby ATPTourFan » 8 months ago

Wichita should go to a conference that values Basketball, and Basketball FIRST. Come to the A10.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby adam914 » 8 months ago

So this should put the VCU, Dayton rumors to bed. Assuming the source is correct of course.

A source said it would take a 75 percent vote from the current conference membership to add a member and that the AAC is only looking at the possibility of adding Wichita State and not other schools.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby 860_rhody » 8 months ago

Why didn't the A10 ever invite WSU? Seems idiotic not to.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby steviep123 » 8 months ago

I thought it was smart to add Butler a few years ago and I would have preferred Creighton to George Mason, but the new Big East took care of that. Wichita St would have been a good addition too. It's not too late for that though.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby 860_rhody » 8 months ago

steviep123 wrote:It's not too late for that though.


Why would it not be too late? The AAC is about to take a vote that would put them in the conference, and only a very stupid school would decline. Am I missing something here?
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby steviep123 » 8 months ago

860_rhody wrote:
steviep123 wrote:It's not too late for that though.


Why would it not be too late? The AAC is about to take a vote that would put them in the conference, and only a very stupid school would decline. Am I missing something here?


If the AAC is about to vote them in, then it is probably too late for the A10 to do something about it.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby steviep123 » 8 months ago

steviep123 wrote:
860_rhody wrote:
steviep123 wrote:It's not too late for that though.


Why would it not be too late? The AAC is about to take a vote that would put them in the conference, and only a very stupid school would decline. Am I missing something here?


If the AAC is about to vote them in, then it is probably too late for the A10 to do something about it.


Edit: Ah, just realized I had a typo in their. The "not" should be there. It should say, "It's too late for that though"
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 8 months ago

860_rhody wrote:
steviep123 wrote:It's not too late for that though.


Why would it not be too late? The AAC is about to take a vote that would put them in the conference, and only a very stupid school would decline. Am I missing something here?


I'm sure there are schools that remember the Big East/American split and won't want the headache of going back to dealing with basketball only schools. And while Wichita State is a no-brainer from a basketball perspective right now, what about if Marshall leaves? Is one game against Wichita a year worth having to play them in every other sport? Once the precedent is set that you add a basketball only school, where and when does it stop?
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 7 months ago

RhowdyRam02 wrote:
860_rhody wrote:
steviep123 wrote:It's not too late for that though.


Why would it not be too late? The AAC is about to take a vote that would put them in the conference, and only a very stupid school would decline. Am I missing something here?


I'm sure there are schools that remember the Big East/American split and won't want the headache of going back to dealing with basketball only schools. And while Wichita State is a no-brainer from a basketball perspective right now, what about if Marshall leaves? Is one game against Wichita a year worth having to play them in every other sport? Once the precedent is set that you add a basketball only school, where and when does it stop?


I think it makes sense for Wichita, seeing as how they are in a weak conference that they usually struggle to achieve one-bid with. Marshall is tired of going like 25-5 and barely making the tournament as a 10 or 11 seed. There are also many natural geographical partners which I think allows it to make sense, versus the A10 who really only offers St. Louis.

When it comes to the football schools, I wouldn't worry about the basketball schools. If you invited 1 or 2 or 3, they would be a minority. If they left, your conference would be in tact. That is very much different from the only BE, where most of the remaining schools were basketball-only, and I believe the only remaining true members from football were USF, Cincinnati, and UCONN.

But at the same time, I would be weary about considering an invite if they were to ask VCU or Dayton. As the minority, every decision is going to come from the football schools which obviously have different interests. Wichita is more in a position where they may need to accept that fact, but not any school from the A10. While I can see the appeal of upping the prestige of the teams you play, it's not like the A10 has been bad to these schools, and I think they would remember that.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby RF1 » 7 months ago

I do not think Dayton or VCU would ever have seriously thought about leaving the A-10 for the AAC. These programs already max out their venue capacity so attendance would not increase. The AAC is spread out much more than the A-10 and travel expenses for all their program sports would be significantly more. Furthermore, in addition to added operating costs, there would likely be less revenue in the AAC for Dayton and VCU. The average full member (with football) AAC team would get about 1.5M/yr with 12 teams. Most of the TV money (up to 75%) is however tied to the football broadcasts which VCU and Dayton would not be entitled to. In the end the tv money for a non football AAC member would basically be the same as the A-10. The NCAA basketball tournament payout distribution formulas for the league also varies. In the A-10, the formula is weighted (75%) heavily to the school that actually earned the NCAA units which for VCU and Dayton is very beneficial as they have been making the tournaments nearly every year. The AAC does not use a similar heavy weighted distribution to reward the members that earn NCAA units. Also, if VCU and Dayton were to leave the A-10, they would have to pay league exit and entrance fees as well as forfeit all NCAA units (earned over prev 6 yrs) to the A-10. This would be millions of dollars each for the two schools left behind. A far flung conference that has both football and non football members is a recipe for conflict and change. Given this along with the negative financial impact, I do not think you will see VCU or Dayton bolting the A-10 for the AAC.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 7 months ago

The only reason for VCU and Dayton to consider such a move would be the fact that they have been the only consistent A10 teams since VCU arrived. There has been no consistency from programs, they rise and fall like the wind, and it has made it hard for the conference to be more than a 3 or 4 bid conference. Heck, until March 5th, the A10 was a 2 bid conference this year. That's just the way it's been since a good 2 season run from 2012-2014. The AAC doesn't have much to write home about at the bottom, but at the top, they can still offer Cincy, SMU, UCONN, and more likely than not Wichita St, who are all likely more appealing than the next best team in the A10. Obviously UCONN had a bad year, but it's hard to dismiss what they'e done the last 20 years.

There are also many reasons for them to not consider such a move, but if the NCAA-picture plays out similar to last year (with P5/BE dominating bids), there is going to be more and more pressure on teams and coaches to find their way into competitive conferences that don't require 13-5 conference records just to make the tournament as a 7+ seed. If Wichita St. does in fact slide over to the AAC, that is the most likely landing ground for competitive basketball schools to go if the conference was open to that.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 7 months ago

I don't see things the same way. SMU has had a nice run these last couple years, but I don't think you can put them in the consistent program category either. Let's see how they do once Larry Brown's recruits aren't in the program anymore. Also, every school you mentioned save Wichita State is looking to move to a bigger conference themselves, so if I was Dayton or VCU, I wouldn't want to jump to the AAC if the goal was to make sure you were consistently matched against Cincinnati and UConn.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 7 months ago

RhowdyRam02 wrote:I don't see things the same way. SMU has had a nice run these last couple years, but I don't think you can put them in the consistent program category either. Let's see how they do once Larry Brown's recruits aren't in the program anymore. Also, every school you mentioned save Wichita State is looking to move to a bigger conference themselves, so if I was Dayton or VCU, I wouldn't want to jump to the AAC if the goal was to make sure you were consistently matched against Cincinnati and UConn.


I know what you are saying, but at least you can look at them and say in the last 4 years, they've had KenPom's of 31-26-16-11. That's better than VCU or Dayton, forget anything under them.

Like I said, if I were those schools, I probably wouldn't do it, but I can see that argument.
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Re: Unconfirmed Expansion Rumors: AAC To Go After VCU, Dayton, Others?

Unread postby steviep123 » 7 months ago

I little humor to pass some time:

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