PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

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bressler3south
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by bressler3south »

Wow….Somewhat overly optimistic, considering there are only two pieces which are "proven commodities" (Bentil and Lindsey) averaged 10.2 points per game combined, never mind that the star recruit (Owens) probably won't qualify academically…..
Medcalf writing about NCAA possibilities is a bit of a stretch in a poorly researched article…..
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by bigappleram »

Kris Dunn will be one of the Top 3-4 players in the country and will cover up a lot of warts. If they can get solid improvement from Bentil and Lindsey and if Bullock can shake off the rust they will still challenge for an NCAA tourney. One supremely talented player can carry a team, especially as a PG and without a 5 second rule. I have no idea why he came back though, their ceiling is prob winning a game in March.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

Reports from the Nike camp have Dunn listed as one of the best, if not the best player there. The camp includes many of the top players in the country, including potential #1 pick Ben Simmons. Some who have been present think of the draft was today, Dunn would be a Top 10, potentially Top 5 pick. PC will have their issues, but Dunn alone should propel them to a 3rd straight tourney bid.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

If Dunn gets into foul trouble in any game,
they could be doomed.
When they had Cotton doing it all from the point, they also
had a good front court, and Fortune.
This team is thin and untested, for the most part.
Still ED Cooley will have them competitive.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by Ramulous »

I think highly of Dunn....but you need three good players to have a good team ....as great as he is he cannot carry the team for a whole season
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by bigappleram »

He could easily average 20ppg, 10apg, 5rpg. Yes if he gets into foul trouble they are doomed but he also will single handedly win games and his style of play will make everyone around him better. It will be a dog fight when they come to town. And again, I have no idea why he bypassed millions of dollars to play for a middling BE team.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by TruePoint »

No doubt Dunn is a great college player and has loads of potential as a pro, but whether he will be able to carry PC back to the tournament will ultimately depend on how good the league is next season - if it is too good it may be hard for him to win a ton of games by himself, and if it is too bad the league might not get enough bids. I don't think it is out of the question for PC to finish fourth in a four bid league, though.
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twisted3829
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by twisted3829 »

don't be surprised to see PC play a lot of zone again this year to protect dunn from foul trouble
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by woodennickel1 »

twisted3829 wrote:don't be surprised to see PC play a lot of zone again this year to protect dunn from foul trouble

I would be very surprised to see that they don't have the length they had last year. In fact I would not be surprised to see them do a lot more pressing and trapping.They are very guard heavy this year unlike last year.
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rjsuperfly66
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

Fair, although Cooley hasn't been afraid to run predominately zone in his time with the Friars. In the NIT season a few years back, they went predominately zone lining up 6'2-6'0-6'4-6'6-6'8. Granted, that team lacked depth, but they ran that lineup with some success. I thought last year even with depth and length, their zone was mediocre a significant portion of time. Sometimes, the best zones aren't the longest or biggest, but ones who are mobile and athletic and rotate well. Last year I thought the PC zone got exposed at times because Henton and Harris didn't have the best footwork or foot speed, and often got beat and lost in space. Fortunate that Desroisiers in the middle eliminated some mistakes.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by bigappleram »

Dunn is prone to foul trouble in his career, given PC will be screwed when he goes to the bench I don't see how they can play an aggressive style of defense. They are going to have to protect him given they have zero depth.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens if Dunn has to sit or miss any substantial period of time.

The one certainty is Kyron Cartwright. He and Jarvis Garrett were rated comparably out of HS, but Cartwright never quite had a solid role with the Friars. He mixed and matched at times, flashed some play making ability, but had a hitch in his shot and never was really an offensive threat outside of making plays in the open court.

The other is a kid named Tyree Chambers. He is the forgotten man and no one really knows his story. He missed most of the OOC with a stress fracture in his foot, and never got into another game after PC's 2nd BE game last year. In warmups (granted warmups), he showed the ability to shoot from the perimeter. No one has really been able to state whether his sitting last year was just a decision to redshirt or for performance reasons, since he never even got into garbage time of any games.

PC has a few freshman known for their offensive ability, but who knows how that will translate. Some kids come in and can at least provide the spark with an absence of defense, some kids the game is too quick for them and they struggle. PC will really need one of Council or Edwards to become an instant plug-in at the 2-guard position, because Junior Lomomba is an offensive liability.

From what I think about PC, even with losing Henton, they very well could be offensively improved. Harris, Desroisiers, and the freshmen were all liabilities on the offensive end last year (on average). Dunn and Henton really did everything. This year, I think they will be more athletic and have better spacing, so if they can hit some shots it should create some room for Dunn to operate, given that my expectation for teams defending him will be much like last year, crowd the paint and force Dunn to hit jump shots or someone else to contribute.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by Ramulous »

One thing is certain about the Friars.....most of our fans here will hope they lose every game every year...same as many of the Friars fans wish for us...
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by eli#10 »

Dunn will probably see a lot of double teams causing other guys to step up big time if the Friars expect to have a good year.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

Very similar to last year, although they at least had Henton. Watching teams like Villanova play PC, it was basically 4 guys on Dunn, one guy locked on Henton. Tons of floating to protect against the drive and guard the paint. Never switching off Henton, forcing other guys to beat them. Expect much of the same this year, which will force PC to have to win with balance, IMHO. Bullock is the closest thing to replicating Henton, but there will be a ton of rust there. PC really needs someone like Jalen Lindsey to take his game to another level, basically floated through 9/10ths of the season.
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bressler3south
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by bressler3south »

bigappleram wrote:He could easily average 20ppg, 10apg, 5rpg. Yes if he gets into foul trouble they are doomed but he also will single handedly win games and his style of play will make everyone around him better. It will be a dog fight when they come to town. And again, I have no idea why he bypassed millions of dollars to play for a middling BE team.
I could see Dunn averaging 25 ppg, 7 rpg, 5-6 topg, and 4 assists --- 10 assists mean that his teammates can score in assist situations. He's going to have the ball in his hands 60-70 percent of the time statistically. I don't know if he'll be all that efficient considering the loss of support.
One doesn't have to look far to understand what happens in certain situations when one player handles the ball too much…..
Don't misunderstand…Dunn's a great talent.
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ramster
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by ramster »

rjsuperfly66 wrote:Reports from the Nike camp have Dunn listed as one of the best, if not the best player there. The camp includes many of the top players in the country, including potential #1 pick Ben Simmons. Some who have been present think of the draft was today, Dunn would be a Top 10, potentially Top 5 pick. PC will have their issues, but Dunn alone should propel them to a 3rd straight tourney bid.
Not surprising. Where do you think Dunn would have gone in this year's draft?
Here are the Point Guards who went in the Top 25:
#2 Deangelo Russell - Freshman
#7 Emmanuel Mudiay - Would have been a Freshman if didn't go to China
#14 Camerson Payne - Sophomore
#16 Terry Rozier - Sophomore
#24 Tyus Jones - Freshman

My guess is he would have gone in the Top 12 - given that he would have shined at the NBA Camps this Spring. No way his talents would have gone unnoticed.

So he comes back to PC, risking injury, losing a year of his potential professional career?

So maybe he goes Top 5 next Spring - then again, what if his FT shooting and his 3 Point shooting don't improve or improve only slightly?
There is risk to staying an extra year. I'm sure he, his family, his friends, his teammates and coaches made up Pro and Con lists but to me, if I were in his shoes I would have gone.

He is too good to have stayed at PC, and he is getting older - look at the PGs who delared this year - all Freshmen and Sophs.

I do like Lindsay, Bulluch, Bentil and of course Dunn as starters this year. Council could grab the other guard spot, maybe Lomomba or Cartwright. This team might just be as good or better than last year's team. I think Lindsay will surprise a lot of PC fans this year - he is talented - just had a slow Freshman year........but with Harris and Henton gone Lindsay can step right into the shooter's role.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

It's all perspective and risk management. Dunn already has gotten the hype. Potential Top 5 pick, Potential Preseason AA, etc. The difference between Pick 5 and Pick 12 is roughly $4 million over the course of 3 seasons (~$9.5 vs. ~$5.5). It's certainly a gamble, not one I'm sure I could take, but you have to imagine he was getting good vibes going forward from NBA people to be willing to pass up a significant payday.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by ramster »

rjsuperfly66 wrote:It's all perspective and risk management. Dunn already has gotten the hype. Potential Top 5 pick, Potential Preseason AA, etc. The difference between Pick 5 and Pick 12 is roughly $4 million over the course of 3 seasons (~$9.5 vs. ~$5.5). It's certainly a gamble, not one I'm sure I could take, but you have to imagine he was getting good vibes going forward from NBA people to be willing to pass up a significant payday.
I would not have taken the risk. He sat out the last day of the Nike event with a swollen elbow. He is also taking a year off of his potential NBA Career - and could end up being one of the oldest if not the oldest player in next year's first round. Also assumes he moves up from a 12 to a 5 by this time next year. NBA seems to be rewarding the one and done crowd with the Lottery Picks. Time will tell.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

Agree, although I think the one thing Dunn has in his favor is that even though he's old, he's still seen as a kid with a ton of potential due to the period of time he's missed with injury. If he plays like the guy he'll be projected to be preseason, he should easily be a Top 10 pick. At the end of the day, education was important, as was improving draft stock. Like I said before, I could never do what he did, but sounds like some of the whispers may have been "Kris, you'll be a very likely lottery pick this season, but stay in school and work on these things, and you could be top 5." At the end of the day, big perception difference over Top 5 and Top 12. Money is more. Top 5 expected to have a crucial role on a bad team. #12 you could be playing the end of the bench or bouncing around the D-League.

I'm glad he's back on my team, but damn, I pray every day it doesn't become the biggest mistake/regret of his life.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by bigappleram »

One more year to get to Free Agency, which diminishes some of the added payday by going Top 5. In the risk v reward scenario it doesn't seem worth it given his history of injury, style of play and trends in draft patterns of NBA teams. 10 years ago sure, but with how much youth and potential is valued now its a big risk. How many foreign players come out of nowhere to fly up the draft boards in the last few months leading up to the draft. He's a special talent, IMO pending how his workouts went with teams this year he could have gone as high as 10-12. I just dont see the reason to come back for a 5 spot jump.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

You could argue free agency is meaningless if you go to the wrong spot. Jeremy Lamb went #14 to Houston. He was traded almost immediately to OKC for James Harden. Now he's in Charlotte. I don't know much about the Charlotte Hornets, but do know they just traded for Nicolas Batum and already have Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. They also have a couple of young guards in P.J. Hairston and Troy Daniels. Maybe he maximized his value. Or maybe he just landed at the wrong spot and never developed. I don't think there is a big difference between 15 and 20, or 20 and 30. But going Top 5 is a huge deal.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by SGreenwell »

I don't think there's any financial justification for him delaying the declaration for a year. Yes, he was mostly healthy for 2014-15, but that was one year out of three. It's hard for me to see him improving his draft stock substantially, short of him adding some completely new skill - I think it's more likely that he's considered for the same 8 to 15 range he was this year. Even if he does get into the top five, I don't think that overrides 1) the injury risk he's taking on and 2) it's one more year of his 20s he "loses" to the NBA rookie contract and arbitration process, vs. getting to true free agency quicker.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by bigappleram »

RJ we are not talking about possibly going 20-30 and then jumping to #4. Then your argument might hold water....we are talking about him having gone anywhere from 10-15 this year (totally feasible) with him going 5-8 next year....that jump is fairly meaningless and is a more likely scenario. The risk he takes on for the incremental bump doesn't add up. PC fans should be happy, but any unbiased observer has to consider it a head scratcher. But hey, I also think its odd that players pegged for starting roles at PC have left the team 2 years straight, so maybe its something in the water up there.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by Ramulous »

My jaded take is that there will be 4 or 5 big players taken with the first picks.....harder to find good bigs....and then some Euros will show up...all big kids.....so maybe Dunn can crack the top 10 after the bigs and maybe be the first guard taken....but still not in the top 5 or 6....I think he would have been the 3rd or 4th guard taken this year and possibly in the top 12....he will need a monster year with more proficient outside shooting to justify jumping into the top 5 or 6...if he were my son I would have told him the time to go was this past draft....
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

THIS is exactly why he should have gone this year:

"Dunn – a likely to have been a first-round selection in last week’s NBA draft if he had bailed on college after his sophomore season – didn’t participate in Sunday night’s scrimmage and will not participate in drills, either, the rest of the way because of an already inflamed left elbow that was aggravated during a scrum for a loose ball Sunday afternoon."
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

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Not sounding good for Top 100 Alex Owens being at PC this fall. Tallahassee Community College?

http://verbalcommits.com/players/alex-owens
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

Greetings,

4 quick notes looking ahead to next season...

1) As Ramster mentioned above, Alex Owens is not coming to PC. Not a big short-term loss, more long-term. Owens tore his ACL in February and suffered a few setbacks. When he would have been able to play and then contribute at a high-level is a mystery. He would have been a redshirt candidate for next season anyway. However, it's the long-term potential which they lose, a kid with some spark who may have developed into a superb junior and senior player. But it ties into another issue ...

2) Cooley lost another player, another guy who never stepped on campus, played a game, or transferred. Start the list - Kiwi Gardner, Ian Baker, Ricky Ledo, Sidiki Johnson, Brandon Austin, Josh Fortune, Tyler Harris, Paschal Chukwu, Alex Owens. Don't think I missed any, but thats 9 players in 4 years, and that doesn't count the guys who left that didn't really bring much value or upside - Bilal Dixon, Brice Kofane, Gerard Coleman, and Ron Giplaye. Some of those are obviously risks you had to take, some of those are risks you could argue should have been seen, others were just blindsides, but at the end of the day, it's hard to build a roster with so much turnover, and most of those listed are his guys.

3) To replace Chukwu and now Owens, Cooley is still working the trail. It's risky, but there are still a few prospects that have some available. One kid, Jones, was a borderline Top 100 recruit to San Diego St. Long and lean, most think he's a long-term prospect. He's also a west-coast guy, so may be tough to pull. Another kid, Adams, played with Quadree Smith at IMG and is a borderline Top 150 guy. An academic risk, he post-graded this season, and supposedly has qualified. He's a west-coast kid too, most seem to think pointed at Arizona St. While working with the U-19s, Cooley also made some connections with foreign coaches, hoping to build a pipeline for kids who want to play here. Some rumors assert that these coaches were going to talk to some players about the possibility of moving here, but who knows what quality you are going to get in that situation.

4) PC's OOC schedule is coming together. Doesn't at this moment appear as strong as last year (with Notre Dame, Kentucky, Miami), but still solid with Illinois, plus could play Arizona or Michigan St. in their OOC tournament. Boise and BC also in that tournament, but PC and BC will be on opposite sides of the bracket, and will play in a non-bracketed game. @URI will also be strong, although typically I don't think of URI and BC as assisting the OOC schedule since they play every year anyways. Also, their 4-team 2016 tournament appears strong with Virginia, Memphis, and Iowa.

That's all to report at this point! :D
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by ATPTourFan »

Excellent report, RJsuperfly! I appreciate your valuable contributions to this online community.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

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Thanks for that post rj
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by Ramulous »

Thank you RJ.....but I still wish for the Friars all the success that the majority of your Scout compadres wish for us....
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

Hey, I know we all like to rib each other from time to time but it's all in good fun. I like most of you guys, we college basketball fans in RI need to stick together sometimes.

One of the guys I mentioned, Brodericks Jones, has a Final 4 of UTEP, Memphis, Syracuse, and PC. Most seem to think 'Cuse isn't really involved since they landed Chukwu. Jones is roughly 6'9, 200 lbs, long and lean. Definitely needs some work to his body, but as a late-4 star prospect, hard to turn down. If you look at some of the reports like this report from NBC Sports (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports. ... t-to-four/), you would have to see PC among the front-runners given their scholarship situation and lack of depth in the frontcourt.
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Re: PC Looking Ahead 2015-2016

Unread post by ATPTourFan »

I would agree with that, Superfly... why would anyone go to Memphis now or UTEP over PC if Syracuse is out of the mix.
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