URI vs. PC - The Past Five Years

[seanmc94]

Whiff on all 3(esp if 2 go to lesser schools) and it will get ugly real fast

Lesser schools = another dig at URI.

Take it for why you will; PC has a better track record over the last 5 years than URI; true or false?

Just BC it hurts doesn't mean it's not true

SG EDIT: Split from the Terrell recruiting thread.

[rambone 78]

Sean you might be right about that, but what counts now is what happens going forward.

Both teams will be good, who will be better is the question. And nobody really knows right now.

[rodfromcranston]

Where does the 5 year thing come from?
Didn't CFL have a couple of his best teams four and five years ago?

[TruePoint]

Whiff on all 3(esp if 2 go to lesser schools) and it will get ugly real fast

Lesser schools = another dig at URI.

Take it for why you will; PC has a better track record over the last 5 years than URI; true or false?

Just BC it hurts doesn't mean it's not true

Records over the last five years:

URI: 84-80
PC: 80-82

Postseasons over the last five years:

URI: 2 NITs (4-2), 1 CBI (1-1)
PC: 2 NITs (2-2)

Best season:

URI: 09-10 - 26-10, NIT finals
PC: 12-13 - 19-15, NIT quarterfinals


IDK, Sean. Hard to see the criteria by which PC has a better track record over the last five years. Maybe you can argue that recent results should be weighed more heavily, which is fair. But, then why did you even use five years as the data set?

[seanmc94]

TP,

You really think you compared apples to apples?

A-10 and BE haven't exactly been on the same level during that period; so therefore PC has had a much more difficult schedule.

Also, PC has won 4/5 and 3 straight head to head.

[Billyboy78]

In Sean's mind, in PC fans' minds, in the local media, our government, URI has always been the lesser school, is now the lesser school and always will be the lesser school. And people wonder why I hate PC? I wish these high and mighty fans would stay on their own board. My blood pressure would be much lower.

[bressler3south]

HERE WE GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. Billboy, just breathe………..

[Billyboy78]

HERE WE GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. Billboy, just breathe………..

It's fine. I'm ignoring from now on.

[SGreenwell]

TP,

You really think you compared apples to apples?

A-10 and BE haven't exactly been on the same level during that period; so therefore PC has had a much more difficult schedule.

Also, PC has won 4/5 and 3 straight head to head.

URI has a tiny bit more postseason success in that time frame - URI played UNC in the NIT Final Four in 2010, IIRC - while PC has had better head-to-head success. I think it's pretty much a "push" if you want to look at the five-year span, since I imagine the NIT people are taking the SOS into account when inviting teams, to an extent. I don't think either program's fans are especially happy about the past five years, though, so it strikes me as an invalid comparison in the first place. I think PC is about a year ahead of URI in the rebuilding process, since they pulled the trigger on a coaching change a year before URI did.

Of course, how this all relates to Jared Terrell is only tangentially at best. I believe ATP has said this before in this topic, but folks, let's try to keep things somewhat related to Terrell. If you want to have a civilized or uncivilized discussion about the wonders of URI and PC, there are about 500 other threads devoted to this. I'll be splitting this portion out when I get a chance in the next five minutes.

[Rhodymob05]

TP,

You really think you compared apples to apples?

A-10 and BE haven't exactly been on the same level during that period; so therefore PC has had a much more difficult schedule.

Also, PC has won 4/5 and 3 straight head to head.

This goes for every team in every conference. No one should ever brag/create an excuse for there team being in a difficult conference. Your team is there because they are expected to compete. If they cannot then they don't belong. I explain this to my PC buddies all the time. PC has competed, just not consistently. This also goes for URI but we have competed quite consistently in the A10. So if URI goes 7 and 2 in their conference and PC goes 2-7 in theirs, then it would seem URI is in the right conference and PC is not. (bad seasons do exist, its just an example)

[rjsuperfly66]

True, but you can't just throw all W/L's in a vacuum and say "Well Team A had this record while Team B had this record, so Team A had more success." It's the same reason you can't say "Well Team B beat 20 ranked teams in the same time Team A beat 1," if Team B is playing 10 a season and Team A is playing 1.

Edit: And I don't agree that PC fans necessarily view URI as a lesser team, but rather a team in a weaker conference which gives the perception they should beat them for recruits like this. It's hard to argue one team is weaker than the other, when the two year plan includes both programs making the NCAA Tournament at least once as an At-Large team.

[Seawrightspostgame]

We have endured a debacle from Baron.
I think we are nearly even now. Interesting going forward.
Especially because PC is now in the same type conference as URI.

I was always confused in my undergrad between RIC and PC... There is just no distinguishing which is which.

[TruePoint]

My point wasn't that URI has clearly been better. It was just that PC wasn't clearly better over that period, either. I was responding to something someone else said, not randomly making a claim about how good URI has been. God knows, nobody here is beating their chests about our last five seasons. I don't think PC has done a lot to hang their hat on in that time, either.

[seanmc94]

We have endured a debacle from Baron.
I think we are nearly even now. Interesting going forward.
Especially because PC is now in the same type conference as URI.

I was always confused in my undergrad between RIC and PC... There is just no distinguishing which is which.

Nearly even right now? PC is coming off an NIT quarter final run and returns the BE leading scorer and most improved player. PC has beat URI in 3 straight by 15+ points. PC is expected to go to thr NCAAs this year. Granted, URI is on the right path, but to say the teams are nearly even is disingenuous.

[ATPTourFan]

This is a stupid comparison... almost like two parents bragging about their two kids' accomplishments, only the one kid wearing a black shirt is 3 and the other in blue is 2.

Obviously, the older kid has had time to get stronger, smarter, and accomplish more things. PC is clearly a year ahead. Good for them that they cut ties with Keno (sponsored by the RILOT) and landed an outstanding replacement. Rhody hit the lottery on Hurley a year later. How awesome is it that both teams are on this trajectory?

Let's focus on that instead of comparing progress of teams that have had different starting lines.

[RF1]

to say the teams are nearly even is disingenuous.

What was really disingenious was to state that one team had an outright better track record over the last five years.

[RF1]

Code: Select all

LAST FIVE SEASONS					
RHODE ISLAND				
2012-13	8	-	21	No Post Season	
2011-12	7	-	24	No Post Season	
2010-11	20	-	14	CBI 2nd Rnd	
2009-10	26	-	10	NIT Semis	URI
2008-09	23	-	11	NIT 2st Rnd	
TOTAL	84	-	80	5 yr span	


LAST FIVE SEASONS						
PROVIDENCE						
19	-	15	NIT QTRS		PC	
15	-	17	No Post Season		PC	
15	-	17	No Post Season		PC	
12	-	19	No Post Season			
19	-	14	NIT 1st Rnd		PC	
80	-	82	5 yr span			

[rjsuperfly66]

What is that trying to prove? 3 letters, S O S ...

Using record to prove unequal samples isn't a fair barometer...

To say both teams are on the same track is a fair one. The only difference is SOC and perception of that conference. People will continue to see the A10 as the little sister of the Big East.

[RF1]

What is that trying to prove? 3 letters, S O S ...

Using record to prove unequal samples isn't a fair barometer...

To say both teams are on the same track is a fair one. The only difference is SOC and perception of that conference. People will continue to see the A10 as the little sister of the Big East.

If the SOS was so great for PC, why didn't they go to more post season tourneys? The reason was simple - they lost too many to those tough opponents. One could argue URI could have lost to them just as well.

As for people continuing to see the A-10 as the little sister to the Big East. There are a lot less people seeing it that way now and going forward. It is an entirely new world.

[rjsuperfly66]

It's still a new world that when The Big East decides they want to expand, they will take whatever A10 teams they desire. That would have happened whether Fox overpaid at $4 million or ESPN paid their $1.5-$2.0 million.

As for SOS, one could argue a Team A who went 15-17 with a 40 SOS could have been 18-14 with a 90 SOS and therefore playing in those NIT games. No one will use it as an excuse when looking at it from an individual perspective, but shouldn't be discounted in comparing teams with vastly different SOSs.

And while I'll always agree the teams are on the same trajectory, I can also see the perception debate. The Big East collectively have another fantastic recruiting group for 2014. Out of the 46 ESPN Top 100 commits, 8 of them are from the Big East (with 6 teams represented). While they will never equal the ACC or Big 10 in pure volume, it's still a fantastic haul. In comparison, the A-10 is currently at zero. Last year, it was 11 to 0 according to ESPN (including Randolph from Xavier).

I'm not saying I agree with the perception debate (It's all about the head coach no matter where you are -- See Larry Brown at an SMU program that hasn't won an NCAA game since 1988 and whose last appearance was '93), but it's not hard to see why some would expect it as a result.

[seanmc94]

This is a stupid comparison... almost like two parents bragging about their two kids' accomplishments, only the one kid wearing a black shirt is 3 and the other in blue is 2.

Obviously, the older kid has had time to get stronger, smarter, and accomplish more things. PC is clearly a year ahead. Good for them that they cut ties with Keno (sponsored by the RILOT) and landed an outstanding replacement. Rhody hit the lottery on Hurley a year later. How awesome is it that both teams are on this trajectory?

Let's focus on that instead of comparing progress of teams that have had different starting lines.

That's a fair and accurate assessment.

[seanmc94]

to say the teams are nearly even is disingenuous.

What was really disingenious was to state that one team had an outright better track record over the last five years.

RF1,

you honestly think that PC and URI were EQUAL on the hardwood over the last 5 years?

[TruePoint]

I would say URI was much better than PC four and five years ago and marginally better than PC three years ago, and that PC was a good amount better than URI last year, and marginally better than URI two years ago.

Ultimately it doesn't matter, because ATP is right. I just find it humorous that you are acting like PC has been making deep tourney runs for the past half decade, when in actuality they've only had two winning seasons and two NIT cameos in that period.

[seanmc94]

Never once positioned that PC was a juggernaut. Eye ball test tells me that PC has clearly been more successful.

4/5 on the floor; last 3 by 15 plus
PC; 2 players drafted and in the nba with contracts
Uri zero
PC has beaten 9 ranked teams in the past 5 years
URI zero

As I stated before; uri is on the right path and the gap may close. However, even though PC has struggled recently, it hasn't been that close

[RAM67]

Would you say that PC was beaten by 30 ranked teams in the last 5 years, and URI only 10?

[woodennickel1]

Ridiculous post neither team has made the big dance, Which is the only thing that matters therefore a mute point.

[Ramulous]

No one enjoys being looked upon as inferior.......I question the character of those who do so....

[rodfromcranston]

Imagine this.
Jim Baron had a winning record vs. PC until his last two seasons.
Nuff said!

[rjsuperfly66]

To be fair, Keno Davis was one of the worst college coaches I have ever seen, and even he had a winning record against URI If he could have coached worth a damn, he would have ended up 3-0 against the Rams (the big choke in '09 blowing what, 16 point halftime lead?).

It's hard to compare coaches in recent history since PC and URI have done a fantastic job for the most part controlling their home court in the series since the Ryan Center came into existence. Ryan Center is super tough to play at, and if the energy from the PC game was brought to the other games, would be one of the best home court advantages in all of college hoops. The RC can get LOUD when all 7,500 are into it, that '09 game was one of the loudest games I've ever experienced in person. Something about the dynamics of the building really creates a lot of noise.

[SGreenwell]

To be fair, Keno Davis was one of the worst college coaches I have ever seen, and even he had a winning record against URI If he could have coached worth a damn, he would have ended up 3-0 against the Rams (the big choke in '09 blowing what, 16 point halftime lead?).

It's hard to compare coaches in recent history since PC and URI have done a fantastic job for the most part controlling their home court in the series since the Ryan Center came into existence. Ryan Center is super tough to play at, and if the energy from the PC game was brought to the other games, would be one of the best home court advantages in all of college hoops. The RC can get LOUD when all 7,500 are into it, that '09 game was one of the loudest games I've ever experienced in person. Something about the dynamics of the building really creates a lot of noise.

I think the seating is fairly dense in the building, at least as compared to a Civic Center-like building. Because they're relying more on decks (i.e. three levels of seating), if they're all full of cheering fans, you have dense sound coming in from three different levels, as opposed to a big circular ring that just goes back. At a certain point, human voice can only get so loud, so I imagine that with sound, three decks > one deck.

However, while I think the configuration of the Ryan Center does allow for more noise, it also strikes me as being much tougher to renovate and expand upon. Like if for whatever reason, URI wanted to go up to 10,000 or 15,000 seats, it's probably simpler and more cost-effective to just make another new arena, as opposed to trying to expand Ryan.

[EasyEdBrown]

It's a moot point, not a mute point.

[ATPTourFan]

Expansion to those levels is so very unlikely.

[RF1]

to say the teams are nearly even is disingenuous.

What was really disingenious was to state that one team had an outright better track record over the last five years.

RF1,

you honestly think that PC and URI were EQUAL on the hardwood over the last 5 years?

Yes - I believe that they were both about the same if the full five years were looked at.

[rjsuperfly66]

I don't think KenPom will agree...

KenPom - Last 5 Years

URI
12-13 - 189 (8-21)
11-12 - 202 (7-24)
10-11 - 120 (20-14)
09-10 - 66 (26-10)
08-09 - 71 (23-11)
Avg - 129.6

PC
12-13 - 65 (19-15)
11-12 - 124 (15-17)
10-11 - 96 (15-17)
09-10 - 88 (12-19)
08-09 - 80 (19-14)
Avg - 90.6

[Rhodymob05]

Obviously we all know that losing to Pittsburg and losing to say st. Joes is not the same, therefore rpi benefits a tougher conference no matter your record

[rjsuperfly66]

KenPom and RPI are unrelated. I hate the RPI, KenPom is simply rating the strength of a team in a given year. For example, in 10-11, that 15 win PC team was noticably stronger than a 20 win URI team according to KenPom.

I really don't care about the past 5 years since both teams sucked, just pointing out the facts from the experts

[RAM67]

I don't think KenPom will agree...

KenPom - Last 5 Years

URI
12-13 - 189 (8-21)
11-12 - 202 (7-24)
10-11 - 120 (20-14)
09-10 - 66 (26-10)
08-09 - 71 (23-11)
Avg - 129.6

PC
12-13 - 65 (19-15)
11-12 - 124 (15-17)
10-11 - 96 (15-17)
09-10 - 88 (12-19)
08-09 - 80 (19-14)
Avg - 90.6

If you really want to get into using these numbers, you can say that comparing our last two years, PC's numbers are better. But how can you ignore the first three, where URI's numbers are better. Averages are misleading.

[ramster]

KenPom and RPI are unrelated. I hate the RPI, KenPom is simply rating the strength of a team in a given year. For example, in 10-11, that 15 win PC team was noticably stronger than a 20 win URI team according to KenPom.

I really don't care about the past 5 years since both teams sucked, just pointing out the facts from the experts

I don't know that many here care to discuss this, but it was brought up by seanmc.
So URI was better than PC for two of the last 5 years, PC better than URI for 3 of the 5 years based on your data.
The last two years have been debacles at URI, and some would argue the last 3 years have been debacles considering the collopse of 3 years ago at Rhody in the 2nd half of the year. Quite clear that URI is in the process of a complete turnaround in facility upgrades, Coaching talent, recruiting talent, marketing, on and on - exciting times here at Rhody.
PC has been a bottom dweller in the BE for most of the past 5 years - but program also looking up

Comparing Conference Strength:
The new Conference Director for the BE has said publicly that she likes the size of the Conference at 10 teams and does not want to grow it - so it is a moot point as to the BE raiding the A10 to take whoever they want in the future. The Leader says she won't expand.

The A10 has improved from 5 years ago. Not from last year having lost Temple, Xavier, Charlotte and Butler but over the longer haul, which is what counts, the trend of the A10 is up. Adding VCU, George Mason and Davidson PLUS with many current teams in the A10 showing some nice improvement including LaSalle, UMASS and now soon to be URI.

Catholic 7 BE is a shadow of what they once were having lost teams to the Big 10, ACC and AAC. Can argue of course current A10 versus current BE but it is a much, much closer arguement today than 1,2,3 or 10 years ago. BE has trended down, A10 has trended up.

More and more College Basketball games are televised. More and more High School Basketball games are televised. The trend will be for more and more and more as we get faster, cheaper and easier video technology. We will be watching the entire URI schedule from our Cell Phone before too long. Point is that the BE TV Contract with Fox becomes less and less attractive and relevant to the general public as access to College and HS Games increases every year.

Agree with RF1, not much difference between the two programs.

[rjsuperfly66]

I believe Ackerman has said the Big East does not have plans to expand at the moment and that they do like the conference at 10 teams. That said, it seems every team in the conference wants to expand. If Ackerman wants to play road block, simply put she will be jobless, which is why I think she's just being politically correct at the moment.

I think the decision to start with 10 teams was a good one to start with, but once everything is figured out with Fox Sports 1, their video service, and scheduling, I think you should expect to see expansion within the next 3 years.

[ramster]

She likes 10 teams. If the Big East wanted to expand then they should not have picked her as their Commish, but picked someone who wanted to expand.
http://www.depauliaonline.com/sports/va ... -1.3047470

One area, at least right now, Ackerman will not consider exploring is the expansion of teams in the conference. The Big East is currently at 10 members with seven – DePaul, Georgetown, Providence, Seton Hall, Villanova, Marquette and St. John’s – splitting from the football-centric schools and three schools – Xavier, Butler and Creighton – joining them.
“Ten is a great number,” Ackerman said. “We have so much on our plate right now that expansion isn’t even on our radar screen with all the other things we have to do to get the conference up and running. We’re satisfied with 10 and that’s where we’re going to be for the foreseeable future.”

[rjsuperfly66]

I don't know how it's extrapolated from that quote that she doesn't plan to ever expand. The one part maybe is that she says they will stay put for the foreseeable future. I take that to be a few years, as that has been the discussion for some time now. Like the other programs, I think they all decided it was easier to transition with 10 than 12. They still have to figure out how every conference game will be on TV, they need to figure out their Web App, and all of that good stuff.

Ackerman may be the commish, but she works for the schools. She does what they want.

[ramster]

I don't know how it's extrapolated from that quote that she doesn't plan to ever expand. Like the other programs, I think they all decided it was easier to transition with 10 than 12. They still have to figure out how every conference game will be on TV, they need to figure out their Web App, and all of that good stuff.

Ackerman may be the commish, but she works for the schools. She does what they want.

I also do not know how you extrapolate from that they the Big East WILL be expanding either.
Bottom line the BE is at 10, they chose NOT to add Dayton or St Louis or Richmond or anyone else even BEFORE Ackerman was named Commish so what does that tell anyone. They could have expanded - didn't, and now a new Commish says she is happy with 10.

I'm done with this discussion - go ahead and have the last word as always.

[rjsuperfly66]

I'm much more in touch with what is going on than you trying to figure out what they want to do from an article, sorry to be so blunt. The teams wanted to transition with 10 teams, which is why they transitioned with 10 teams. They would have liked to try more, but were hesitant because of how many questions exist with Fox Sports 1 and what their ability would have been to air the extra games.

The teams never stopped wanting more, but decided it was in their best interest to stabilize and let FS1 and the conference get their feet wet. Once FS1 is fully functional (to the point they could handle an increased workload, when questions still exist about the current workload), the programs would like to again begin to explore potential additions (as was stated to me by a source). I was also told he would be surprised if there was not a concrete expansion plan in place over the course of the next few years in terms of deciding on what two programs to add.

Now that is out there, I'm done. Moral of the story - what did you expect her to say? She hates 10 teams? I think the bigger question that exists is when they do expand, what two teams would be of interest? Is Siena still an option (if Patsos turns them around)?

[ramster]

Whatever the big east wants to do , I really don't care what this pittance of what this league once was does. I will say that the BE and A10 have NEVER been so close to parity - NEVER. That ought to scare even the most ardent of BE supporters.

[rjsuperfly66]

Agree, but if the A-10 cannot produce recruits at a higher-level, then the past few years of solid performances won't mean as much because the past two years of recruiting classes are putting a little separation in the talent pools. The "new" Big East schools are on a 19-0 run according to ESPN. The "new" Big East is still recruiting at a major conference level (believe it or not). I think the bigger concern is how long that holds up.
Do Top 100 recruits mean everything? No. But the more you have, the better off you are likely going to be.

[TruePoint]

You say "still" recruiting at that level, like it has been five years. The conference hasn't even started its inaugural season. I'll reserve my judgment about how much of a force this version of the Big East will be in recruiting.

[rodfromcranston]

TP, when is this Friartown getting dumped?
The sooner the better!

[rjsuperfly66]

You say "still" recruiting at that level, like it has been five years. The conference hasn't even started its inaugural season. I'll reserve my judgment about how much of a force this version of the Big East will be in recruiting.

I agree with your point. However, I feel like a lot of people felt the Big East "drop" to mid-major would result in such a way that the Big East and Atlantic 10 would be comparable conferences. Despite the drop, this new conference is still producing recruits at a fantastic level, not old Big East level, but major conference level. Will it hold up over the course of the next 10 years though? God only knows. But it's still an important and impressive showing, all things considered. Perception of the conference needed to remain strong, and so far it has.

[Iggy1979]

Post-season is all that matters and over the last two years these two teams are tied in the most important stat: number of NCAA appearances. URI has the edge in overall post-season appearances and wins. PC has been better head to head. I'd call it a push, too. Players drafted means nothing. RPI Is only a means to an end.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

Sean, bad day at work? You needed to feel superior to somebody, so you come over here and start this crap. Why don't you do something meaningful and go clean up Eaton Street.