Gm 7 Football - Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby ramster » 1 month ago

From Projo.....
Fleming said. “We chose not to do that. Thought it was a safe call, and they got us.”
Lawson had impressed in his first start to that point, filling in for Tyler Harris (finger) with 332 total yards and two touchdown passes. He didn’t see Messer rotate from his linebacker spot out into the flat, and the recent addition to the Buck Buchanan Award watch list showed why he’s regarded as one of the top defensive players in all of FCS. The Phoenix notched a sixth straight single-digit victory and kept pace with defending national champion James Madison atop the CAA standings.
“Went to the well one too many times,” a red-eyed Lawson said. “It bit me in the (backside) in the end.”



Ball was on the 19 yard line with 28 seconds left in the game, 3rd down. 16 yards further back than an Extra Point. A strong wind at the back of Carrick as URI had the wind in the 2nd and 4th Quarters. Would have been a 36 yard field goal attempt for the win over a Top 25 Program at home. For Fleming to say of a pass on 3rd down "Thought it was a safe call", I don't know. Some Head Coaches would look to kick the field goal on 3rd down in case of a bad snap, then get another chance on 4th down. The 36 yard field goal attempt, with wind at the back had to make the difference of 10 yards, making a 36 yard kick more like the equivalent of 26 yards. Going the other way (for Elon) a 36 yard field goal would be more like the equivalent of a 46 yarder or worse.
The safe call would be kick the field goal on 3rd down from the 36 with the strong wind at our back. A safe call would be to run the ball straight ahead, to prevent a loss and possibly break for a gain. Then kick the Field Goal.
Passing you risk:
- a 10 yard holding penalty to protect the QB to throw
- a QB sack taking you further out of field goal territory
- a bobble by the receiver for an interception
- a fumble by the QB on a sack
- an interception

Game over, no field goal attempt

from Bill Koch's article........
Carrick’s missed extra point in the second quarter – his first of the season – wound up the difference in the game, and his 4-for-8 success rate on field goals this season factored into Fleming’s critical decision. An opportunity for redemption never came for either man on this day, as the Rams fell for the 21st straight time against a ranked opponent.
“He’s going to be a good player,” Fleming said. “Missing the extra point early, he had a kickoff out of bounds – there were some things that we were really trying to weigh out.”



The kickoff out of bounds that Fleming refers to was against the wind. Elon's Kicker ALSO kicked out of bounds at the URI 10 yard line. URI Coaching staff chose to take the ball at the 35 yard line instead of having him kick again (rather conservative move I thought at the time for URI). The wind caused the balls to go out of bounds - sure the kicker should compensate for that and kick more to the right, but didn't. So for Fleming to use the Kick out of bounds to be rational for not kicking the potential game winning field goal with 28 seconds to go was weak. Also the fact that he missed his extra point kick after the 2nd TD was weak. I could argue he made 4 extra points. I could argue the miss he had was close AND it was into a strong wind!!! He had the wind at his back for the game winning FG attempt.
Missed extra point (into the wind, plus he made 4 extra points) and the kick off out of bounds were excuses. Fleming and his OC blew it calling for a pass on 3rd down from the 19 yard line. He should have kicked the FG on 3rd down (for possible bad snap) or ran the ball one more time to get slightly better field position. But we never fired the gun, never took the shot in basketball, never attempted the field goal, he made the wrong call. Lawson had a great game up until then. I don't blame him - he was far above what anyone would have expected in his first start ever for URI.

For Fleming to say of Carrick, "He's going to be a good player", then why did you take the opportunity out of his hands (or foot :lol:)

In addition,
Fleming said he had already missed an extra point. True his second extra point attempt (into the wind). He made his 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th attempts (so 3 straight). The FG would have been 36 yards if attempted on 3rd down with 28 seconds left. An Extra point is 20 yards. He had a strong wind at his back.
Bill Koch could have followed up with questions like:
1. Did you consider kicking the FG from the 19, with the strong wind at your back on 3rd down? in case of a bad snap you could have another chance?
2. Did you consider Carrick's missed extra point was into the wind and just missed?
3. Did you consider Carrick made 3 straight extra points?
4. Did you consider since Carrick missed the extra point on the 2nd TD that there were 3 more chances where you could have gone for 2 points to potentially tie the game?
5. Why did you not try for 2 points on any of those 3 extra point attempts, especially after the last TD?
6. Looking back would you have done anything different on the 2 point conversions following the 3rd, 4th and especially the 5th TDs?
7. Looking back would you have done anything different on the 3rd down call with 28 seconds to go? If so, what?

And if Bill Koch, or any other reporter, doesn't ask any or all of those 7 questions, Thor should also ask him the same 7 questions and contemplate the responses he receives.

Methinks his Offensive Coordinator position (at least) could warrant an upgrade.
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Hal Kopp
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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby Hal Kopp » 1 month ago

Ramster-right on-the OC is his son,who is in way over his head.
OC is the most important job on campus.
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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby Rhodymob05 » 1 month ago

Just talking about this with my brother and father, give the kicker a chance to redeem the missed extra point. Run the ball pick up a few yrds at a minimum then kick the field goal. I was there , the winds wasn’t terrible. The offense played well but that defense man oh my.
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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby SmartyBarrett » 1 month ago

Rhodymob05 wrote:Just talking about this with my brother and father, give the kicker a chance to redeem the missed extra point. Run the ball pick up a few yrds at a minimum then kick the field goal.


This was my take as well. Kid was no doubt itching to redeem himself. Run a play to center the ball and let him get it done.

Or, ya know, throw a pick. Either/or.
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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby ATPTourFan » 1 month ago

I wish I could 10x like Ramster's post. Disgusted that the coach did not put the team in the best position to win. They did NOT need a touchdown. They didn't need MORE yards. If you think your kicker can't get a FG with the wind from mid-30yd range, then do you think they can from closer? It's basically a no-confidence vote which will probably haunt them going forward when they DO choose to use their kicker to get critical points late in a game.

In the scenario Rhody had, time running down, 3rd down, respectable FG range, YOU KICK it even on 3rd down sometimes. If NOT, then you do your safest possible run to spot the ball where the kicker prefers to line up. (I don't know if they had a timeout or not at that point)
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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 1 month ago

They had at least one timeout left. Really poor decision
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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby rambone 78 » 1 month ago

Excuse Central.....Losers Lament.....whatever you want to call it.

Horrible call. Own up to it.....like Girardi did.....

Other programs fire coaches for bonehead calls like that. I realize that doesn't happen here...we can't afford to fire him anyway.
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ramster
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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby ramster » 1 month ago

ATPTourFan wrote:I wish I could 10x like Ramster's post. Disgusted that the coach did not put the team in the best position to win. They did NOT need a touchdown. They didn't need MORE yards. If you think your kicker can't get a FG with the wind from mid-30yd range, then do you think they can from closer? It's basically a no-confidence vote which will probably haunt them going forward when they DO choose to use their kicker to get critical points late in a game.

In the scenario Rhody had, time running down, 3rd down, respectable FG range, YOU KICK it even on 3rd down sometimes. If NOT, then you do your safest possible run to spot the ball where the kicker prefers to line up. (I don't know if they had a timeout or not at that point)


Thanks ATP,

I also think it shows something about leadership or lack thereof.

For the HC to say he missed an extra point (into the strong wind and just missed at that) and he made 4 extra points was not a confidence builder for the Freshman Kicker
For the HC to also say he had kicked a Kickoff out of bounds which was also into a strong wind AND the Elon Kicker did just about the SAME THING also into the strong wind - same direction towards the end zone at the Keaney Gym end of the Field, was also not a confidence builder for his Freshman kicker
One could all that throwing the Freshman kicker under the bus

But worse yet, he was basically blaming the Kicker's missed XP and Kickoff Out of Bounds for Him and his Offensive Coordinator for not doing what they absolutely should have done.

They should have kicked the FG on 3rd down, OR run safely up the middle then kicked the FG on 4th down. We were going towards the Ryan Center Parking lot end of the field. The wind was strong and at the kickers back. Good grief, our punter kicked from our 20 to their 13 yard line for a 67 yard punt - it sailed way over the punt receivers head - that is how strong the wind was. Punting the other direction they had to keep the punts low and hope for 25-30 yard punts.
Bad call by the HC and the OC - lose on a missed FG but to not even try was criminal

In front of 7200 fans, none of whom had left the stands, the HC and OC and AD and URI President missed a grand opportunity to send URI Students, Fans, Parents, Alumni, etc home ecstatic. Instead it was poor Coaching - and even worse to basically justify the poor decision on the URI Place Kicker. A shame.

and again, on TOP of that, to never go for a 2 point conversion on the 3rd, 4th and even worse yet 5th touchdown was insane. Anyone knows you have to go for two points, because even if you miss on one of those you still can win the game with a 3 point field goal.

Bad Coaching decision making in front of a crowd with a person in every seat. Missed opportunity.
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ramster
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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby ramster » 1 month ago

Derrick is Assistant Director of Marketing at URI

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ramster
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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby ramster » 1 month ago

and as I think about the last 30 seconds of that game again,
I would have more respect for Fleming IF he were to admit they could have handled the last 30 seconds better. That they should have not called a pass on 3rd down with the ball on the 19 yard line. That they should have kicked the FG on 3rd down, or ran up the middle then kicked the FG on 4th down.
But he tried to legitimize his decision and is OC decision (who coincidently is his son) by saying the Freshman Placekicker had previously missed an XP and had one of 6 Kickoffs go out of bounds for a penalty flag. Big deal. He should have owned up that he and/or his OC or the whole Coaching Staff could have and should have called better plays.
He didn't.
Enuff Said
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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 1 month ago

I've seen it mentioned fairly often that we should have gone for two on one of our other touchdowns. I don't necessarily disagree, but Fleming would have been going against what most other coaches do if he had done that. The last touchdown we scored was in the third quarter and normally that's considered still too early to be chasing points.
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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby ramster » 1 month ago

RhowdyRam02 wrote:I've seen it mentioned fairly often that we should have gone for two on one of our other touchdowns. I don't necessarily disagree, but Fleming would have been going against what most other coaches do if he had done that. The last touchdown we scored was in the third quarter and normally that's considered still too early to be chasing points.


When you go for 2 also depends on the score.....
Q2 - 3:05 left in half - Elon 14-13 as URI missed XP into the wind
Q2 - 2:56 left - URI 20-14 as URI makes XP
Q2 - 2:45 left - Elon scores to go up 21-20 (again scary score due to XP missed)
Q2 - 1:44 left - URI 27-21. At halftime I gave update on game to Keaney Blue - and mentioned I hope that missed XP does not come back to haunt us
4 TDS scored in 1 minute and 21 seconds!!!

Q3 - 5:10 left - Elon goes up 28-27
Q3 - 1:05 left - URI with school record 90 yard punt return. URI up 34-28 as they make XP (again scary score due to XP missed)

Q4 - 12:08 left - Elon scores. Elon 35 - URI 34 Ended up Final Score of the Game

URI did not score on offense the entire 2nd half

Special Teams scored with the 90 yard Punt Return


IF Fleming and/or Son go for 2 on the Punt Return with 1:05 left in the 3rd Q )and the offense definitely sputtering in the 3rd Q) then worst if they miss going for 2 is a score of 33-28 URI. Elon can score a TD to make is 35-33 and still URI can win on a FG. Best case is URI makes the 2 point conversion and we go to OT 35-35. ALSO, there would be much less pressure on URI at the 19 yard line with 28 seconds to go so they could try the FG with a 35-35 tie. Instead, being down a point there was big pressure on everyone - and they went to pass :( :( .

As I said, Thor (and also press core) could ask the 7 questions I posed. See what the responses are from Fleming and/or son. What were they thinking? What would they do differently?

Sitting in the stands I questioned why were they not going for the 2 points on the 90 yard punt return - nothing to lose

My guess is that the 90 yard URI punt return surprised Fleming and Son, just as it did everyone in the Stadium. My guess is going for 2 never entered their minds. They just automatically trotted out the XP team. Which is a problem imho if they didn't even consider the 2 point option.

This loss weighs heavily on the Coaching Staff. Lawson played great. The team gave it their all. Have to also wonder why Lawson has not been the starter all along. But now I wonder about a lot of things

I'm more and more in the camp of Uncle Ed, Rambone and Hal that the Offensive Coordinator is in way over his head, and so is the HC

Time to change, changing for the upcoming game would not be too soon for me. This Saturday sealed it for me.
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ramster
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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby ramster » 1 month ago

Always interesting to read the opponent's message board.............

This post on Elon's Board says it all...........


Oct 21, 2017 14:54:55 GMT -5 fc4life said:
What in the world were they thinking calling a pass! What a moronic call!
The offense really saved us. Lots to clean up on D and the special teams.
I’ll take the W!
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Hal Kopp
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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby Hal Kopp » 1 month ago

Another question-why a frosh kicker in the CAA?
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Uncle Ed
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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby Uncle Ed » 1 month ago

The kicker from last year left to go play elsewhere...not sure where. He was highly touted when he was recruited here but I don't think he was any better than the current kicker - he also had some critical FG misses. I think the kid they have now is pretty good despite the misses. A couple of years back Villanova as a Top 5 team would have beaten Syracuse and a late round playoff game but for an inept kicker. I feel bad for this kid...he could/should have been the hero of this game.
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Hal Kopp
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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby Hal Kopp » 1 month ago

Not opposed to giving the kid a chance. Just unrealistic to think he would necessarily make it on Sat..
On great Rhody teams from 81-85,kickers missed Xpoints and FGs regularly.
85 team forced to travel with 3.
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ramster
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Re: Gm 7 Elon 12pm Sat Oct 21 Homecoming Family Day

Unread postby ramster » 1 month ago

Well deserved



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