URI football: History is chasing us

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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby ramster » 1 month ago

adam914 wrote:
ramster wrote:
adam914 wrote:Lets please stop pumping up a homecoming and family weekend attendance number like it means anything. You had thousands of students who were forced to spend the weekend with their parents and couldn't think of anything better to do. A winning program wouldn't bring the majority of those people back unless it was family weekend and homecoming again.


I specifically said they were there because of Homecoming, because of Family Day. They were there in spite of a winning program. There are people who want football dropped at URI. There are people who think we should drop to a lower division. People think we should drop football because URI fans do not care about winning, only want to see the fall leaves, and love to misquote or take words out of context.

Do not think for a minute that there are not people who want football at URI discontinued and have all the money magically go to the basketball program


I think the amount of people who truly want football at URI dropped are very very few. And I am also willing to bet that the vast majority of those people are simply speaking out of anger and embarrassment at what our football program has become. I think if given the choice between a respectable football program (I'm not talking national titles here, just a competitive team most years) and dropping football, many of those people would choose a respectable program.

As for the whole "fall leaves" thing, you have to realize that's just an easy line to grasp onto when trying to make a bigger point about how pathetic URI Football has become. I've done it before as well. Hell in a lot of your comments about the game on Saturday you continue to talk about what a beautiful day it was. It's just sad that on the list of things to be happy about when it comes to URI Football one of the main recurring themes is weather related. It sure would be nice if that wasn't the case.


No, I think you are wrong about the number of people who want it dropped. Because:

If Thor had not come out and said, on more than one occasion, that URI is not dropping Football under his watch, you would hear more complaints. If the Projo article had not come out a year or two before in which Thor clearly stated that the Football Program cost URI $500,000 per year, you would hear more complaints. And that $500,000 does NOT include some of the donations that would drop to the University if the Football program were dropped. Thor also said that the Scholarship Money that goes to Football would not be saved - but used for the general Scholarship funds - just would go to different people.
Before Thor made this statement that he would not drop Football and before the $500,000 annual cost came out and before Thor said that money saved from Football Scholarships would not go to the Basketball Program there was a much stronger drumbeat to drop Football. I still have to bring out the Articles and Quotes from Thor and some people still do not believe the numbers.

My point on the beautiful day is that the crowd of 7200 was enhanced by that. If 50 degrees many would have stayed inside. Many would not have stayed for the entire game.
But if no Football Program the beautiful day would not matter. The 7200 would not be at Meade Field. I certainly would not be there.

But maybe they would go to see Bill Nye and Whoopie Goldberg......maybe attend a soccer game. But would these current students at URI would ever come back for Homecoming if there was no Football Team? No Tailgating? None, they would never come back.

It would be a crying shame if URI became like Alaska and Vermont to be the 3rd State University without a Football Team
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby Rhodymob05 » 1 month ago

ramster wrote:
adam914 wrote:
ramster wrote:
I specifically said they were there because of Homecoming, because of Family Day. They were there in spite of a winning program. There are people who want football dropped at URI. There are people who think we should drop to a lower division. People think we should drop football because URI fans do not care about winning, only want to see the fall leaves, and love to misquote or take words out of context.

Do not think for a minute that there are not people who want football at URI discontinued and have all the money magically go to the basketball program


I think the amount of people who truly want football at URI dropped are very very few. And I am also willing to bet that the vast majority of those people are simply speaking out of anger and embarrassment at what our football program has become. I think if given the choice between a respectable football program (I'm not talking national titles here, just a competitive team most years) and dropping football, many of those people would choose a respectable program.

As for the whole "fall leaves" thing, you have to realize that's just an easy line to grasp onto when trying to make a bigger point about how pathetic URI Football has become. I've done it before as well. Hell in a lot of your comments about the game on Saturday you continue to talk about what a beautiful day it was. It's just sad that on the list of things to be happy about when it comes to URI Football one of the main recurring themes is weather related. It sure would be nice if that wasn't the case.


No, I think you are wrong about the number of people who want it dropped. Because:

If Thor had not come out and said, on more than one occasion, that URI is not dropping Football under his watch, you would hear more complaints. If the Projo article had not come out a year or two before in which Thor clearly stated that the Football Program cost URI $500,000 per year, you would hear more complaints. And that $500,000 does NOT include some of the donations that would drop to the University if the Football program were dropped. Thor also said that the Scholarship Money that goes to Football would not be saved - but used for the general Scholarship funds - just would go to different people.
Before Thor made this statement that he would not drop Football and before the $500,000 annual cost came out and before Thor said that money saved from Football Scholarships would not go to the Basketball Program there was a much stronger drumbeat to drop Football. I still have to bring out the Articles and Quotes from Thor and some people still do not believe the numbers.

My point on the beautiful day is that the crowd of 7200 was enhanced by that. If 50 degrees many would have stayed inside. Many would not have stayed for the entire game.
But if no Football Program the beautiful day would not matter. The 7200 would not be at Meade Field. I certainly would not be there.

But maybe they would go to see Bill Nye and Whoopie Goldberg......maybe attend a soccer game. But would these current students at URI would ever come back for Homecoming if there was no Football Team? No Tailgating? None, they would never come back.

It would be a crying shame if URI became like Alaska and Vermont to be the 3rd State University without a Football Team


Could not be more true, and a lot of people believe this. Keep football.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby adam914 » 1 month ago

Fair enough, if it makes you guys feel better to have some imaginary mob of football haters out there to hate then have at it. But I don't see it. I think people just want to not be embarrassed by our program for once.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby Hal Kopp » 1 month ago

Rhowdy-you are so enraptured with credible job Thorr has done with football,here is a question for you:
Did he give back all the scholarships to football after the NEC switcheroo?
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 1 month ago

Yes
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby ramster » 1 month ago

adam914 wrote:Fair enough, if it makes you guys feel better to have some imaginary mob of football haters out there to hate then have at it. But I don't see it. I think people just want to not be embarrassed by our program for once.


Adam,

This was from the article 2 years ago by Mike Szostak of the Providence Journal. Thor has heard the call to drop football for 8 years accordingly to the article he was interviewed for. I would doubt that anything has changed in that regard during the last 2 years since the article was written.

So if it makes you feel better that the group that calls for football at URI to be dropped is "imaginary" then so be it on your behalf as well.

For all in favor of Football being Played at URI then it would be dangerous to think that there are no people out there wanting to pull the plug. URI Administration must continuously make decisions to improve the program, solidify the program so that it does not get discontinued, ever.

"Thorr Bjorn, the director of athletics, has heard the call to drop football since he took the job eight years ago but has not wavered in his support."


http://ripr.org/post/after-disastrous-s ... t#stream/0
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby OBRAM » 4 weeks ago

I don't know why Mike Szostak hates URI so much. He would write about how many fans were at Bryant game even thought the numbers reported were false, he even criticized Meade Stadium because the West Stands would get into the shade. Does that mean he actually went to Meade and sat in the West Stands on a cool day? Notice, even at Gillette Stadium seats get into the shade.

I have to take some positives, otherwise I will get to discouraged. We have improved a great deal from 3-4 years ago, when we were basically a bad NEC team. Saturday could have been our 4th win of the season, in years past we didn't even get close to winning.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby SmartyBarrett » 4 weeks ago

adam914 wrote:I think the amount of people who truly want football at URI dropped are very very few.


Maybe I'm in a unique position of visibility here, but I strongly disagree with this. Unless people are creating burner social media accounts or trolling, then there are a good amount of folks who want the program dropped, and even some who cheer against the team in hopes that it'll help finally #CutTheProgram.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 4 weeks ago

How many of those people would exist if the team were at all competitive? We clinched a losing season in mid-late October. We win less than 20% of our games. We've had 16 losing seasons in a row. You can't separate all of that from people calling for football to be dropped.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby ramster » 4 weeks ago

RhowdyRam02 wrote:How many of those people would exist if the team were at all competitive? We clinched a losing season in mid-late October. We win less than 20% of our games. We've had 16 losing seasons in a row. You can't separate all of that from people calling for football to be dropped.


No one is arguing that. Adam says very, very few people want football dropped. Either they do or they don't. Every person will have a reason or reasons why or why not to drop it - that's not the point.

SmartyBarrett wrote:
adam914 wrote:I think the amount of people who truly want football at URI dropped are very very few.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 4 weeks ago

What aren't you getting about what he's saying? There are very few people that want football dropped because they're against us having a team. They're against us playing when we're not competitive and have condemned stands. Seems pretty clear.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby ramster » 4 weeks ago

It is very clear. Adam believes that people do not want football dropped at URI for any reason. If they do say they want it dropped it is because they are upset that we lost so they really didn't mean it. Plain and simple.

But,
What Thorr said in the article I provided: "Thorr Bjorn, the director of athletics, has heard the call to drop football since he took the job eight years ago but has not wavered in his support."

It has now been 10 years and I am sure the talk to drop it continues.

You can say people want football dropped IF the team can't improve the record and improve the team's performance. Many here say that.

But there are others who have wanted the program dropped regardless of the team's performance or record.

The point is that there are people who want the Team dropped, period.

Some want the money from Football to go to having a D1 Hockey Team
Some want the money to go to Men's Basketball
Some want the money to go to teacher's salaries
Some thought the team lost a LOT more money than the $500,000 that Thorr clarified in the article 2 years ago. many argued and continue to argue the $500,000 is too low.......... but ever since that article came out the arguments on KeaneyBlue have decreased. But that does not mean the pressure to drop the program has subsided on Thorr, only on KeaneyBlue have they subsided.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby Rhodymob05 » 4 weeks ago

You have a product, made up of a current existing team and staff, stadium, locker rooms, weight rooms ect. You have history, you have years and years of alumni who remember going to games as students. You have major university events centered on the sport and team. This is all established and when it goes, its gone. Unless you're Villanova who made the mistake, thus having the program reemerge and are now successful. The goals are still in place, improve and compete, lets not make this program a relic, something that used to be lets keep it alive to keep the goals alive. I understand it that people on this board and abroad, want the program to improve, not disappear, but it's never okay to avoid losing and embarrassment by quitting. Homecoming this pass weekend was beautiful, the stands were full, hundreds and hundreds were tailgating. I'm not fooled into thinking it'll be like this all season, but it shows what CAN be all season with more success.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby adam914 » 4 weeks ago

SmartyBarrett wrote:
adam914 wrote:I think the amount of people who truly want football at URI dropped are very very few.


Maybe I'm in a unique position of visibility here, but I strongly disagree with this. Unless people are creating burner social media accounts or trolling, then there are a good amount of folks who want the program dropped, and even some who cheer against the team in hopes that it'll help finally #CutTheProgram.


Well rooting against the team in hopes they'll cut the program is stupid. But do you think a large number of those people you hear from on social media are just reacting to yet another embarrassing performance on the field during or shortly after games? In my opinion just saying "#CutTheProgram" is the easy knee jerk reaction to make on social media or on a message board each week when we inevitably shit the bed again.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby Blue Man » 3 weeks ago

I try to stay out of this fray, as a man can only wage one internet war at a time...but since we've settled that Dan Hurley is the best coach we ever could've hired for basketball, I'll happily jump in here to educate people on why they're wrong about dropping football or firing Fleming.

As noted, the cost of cutting the program versus the benefit of keeping it doesn't even come close to a justification.

Like national defense or education, college sports is not a money making venture. It's something that is seen as a worthwhile investment with non-monetary returns; be it a feeling of safety and security, education, or entertainment. College athletics is a window with which alumni, students, parents, and local fans can view and support/take pride in their state university.

Simply because football exists, 5000 people find their way down to Kingston on 6 or 7 beautiful fall weekends a year. They get to see what all of us are so proud of, get to see and re-connect with people and memories in a place all of us find special. Without football they wouldn't. Universities aren't for-profit. Sure they have to manage budgets and the bottom-line does matter, but the goal of the outcome isn't profit. It's experiences, knowledge, and all the stuff you'd hear about on a fantastic commercial.

Demanding the 2nd most important program in the athletic department that plays in the 2nd highest level of football in the land win, isn't sensible given the context of the situation.

Most rational people above agree.

Football isn't URI's money sport. It doesn't compete at the highest level like basketball, so there isn't the pressure to win like basketball. That's a New England thing. We're not college football people, no matter the level. UConn, UMass, BC - they don't draw for shit. Obviously everyone wants to see a competitive team, but URI has their competitive sport. If we are able to compete here it's icing on the cake since we're competing and competing well where it counts.

From a budget standpoint, football doesn't cost very much at all, brings in donations we wouldn't otherwise have, provides a title IX shield for all of the other mens and women's programs at URI, and as we've seen - has support that far exceeds it's on field success. Why on earth would you want to get rid of something like that?

That being said, we obviously want to see a winner, but it doesn't cause us to breathe and react like basketball. If football were the only thing that mattered here, we'd live south of the mason dixon line and we'd have stopped at nothing to become a winner. We need basketball to be our winner here, and that tide will raise all boats.

Thanks to the facility enhancements that basketball has brought - Jim Fleming was able to secure the top recruiting class in the CAA 2 years in a row.

Because of that, only 4 starters total are seniors this year.

So a team that has been competitive in all games but one this year, and is a few plays away from being 6-2 instead of 2-6, looks like a young team. Well yeah, they are a young team.

Why anyone would say it's time to fire the coach when he's just getting going on building this program into a competitor is beyond me.

Honestly if you want to compare basketball and football, Fleming walked into an even worse situation than Hurley - because of the NEC drop.

Less scholarships and recruiting for NEC level players is as much, if not more of a hamstring than what Hurley was left with. At least basketball has a somewhat recent history and arena to sell. The ability to play in the NCAA tournament and be in the national spotlight. Fleming has none of that. No football history, recent or otherwise. Poor facilities. A class below the national bright lights.

Why anyone is sitting here and saying it's time to move on from Fleming after it took Hurley longer to raise the basketball ship is assinine.

Enjoy the progress this team continues to make, and see how close they really are. Wanting to abandon ship before we get there is foolish.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby rambone 78 » 3 weeks ago

Blue Man, the issue with me and others about this season center around the coaching staff...are they qualified to take advantage of the improved talent on the field?

Fleming may be a good recruiter, but is he a good coach?

Many people who know much more about coaching than I do, don't think so.

And his son as OC? Please.

The bottom line is winning...yeah the football program doesn't occupy the same level as basketball here of course....but coming close doesn't cut it...
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 3 weeks ago

Blue Man wrote:Simply because football exists, 5000 people find their way down to Kingston on 6 or 7 beautiful fall weekends a year. They get to see what all of us are so proud of, get to see and re-connect with people and memories in a place all of us find special. Without football they wouldn't. Universities aren't for-profit. Sure they have to manage budgets and the bottom-line does matter, but the goal of the outcome isn't profit. It's experiences, knowledge, and all the stuff you'd hear about on a fantastic commercial.

Demanding the 2nd most important program in the athletic department that plays in the 2nd highest level of football in the land win, isn't sensible given the context of the situation.

Thanks to the facility enhancements that basketball has brought - Jim Fleming was able to secure the top recruiting class in the CAA 2 years in a row.

So a team that has been competitive in all games but one this year, and is a few plays away from being 6-2 instead of 2-6, looks like a young team. Well yeah, they are a young team.

Honestly if you want to compare basketball and football, Fleming walked into an even worse situation than Hurley - because of the NEC drop.

Less scholarships and recruiting for NEC level players is as much, if not more of a hamstring than what Hurley was left with. At least basketball has a somewhat recent history and arena to sell. The ability to play in the NCAA tournament and be in the national spotlight. Fleming has none of that. No football history, recent or otherwise. Poor facilities. A class below the national bright lights. .


Paragraph one: Five weekends a year and less than 5000. If memory serves it was less than 4000 last year. And I didn't know most of us were proud of losing

Paragraph two: We shouldn't expect them to win? That's a loser mentality that frankly I thought you were above. I guess I read your posts on other parts of the board wrong. Thorr himself used to say the program would be judged on wins and losses? What else should we judge it on?

Paragraph three: Did we have the best recruiting class this year? I know we did last year. And he's done what with those players? This is his team, every player on it. Since the first year we've been told that he's been improving the caliber of player. We clinched a losing season two weeks ago.

Paragraph four: And if our aunts had different genitals they'd be our uncles. They're 2-6 because that's what our players and coaches are capable of. You are what your record says you are.

Paragraph five and six: Again the debunked NEC excuse. If that killed us why have Albany, Stony Brook and now Elon been better than us?
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby Blue Man » 3 weeks ago

RhowdyRam02 wrote:
Blue Man wrote:Simply because football exists, 5000 people find their way down to Kingston on 6 or 7 beautiful fall weekends a year. They get to see what all of us are so proud of, get to see and re-connect with people and memories in a place all of us find special. Without football they wouldn't. Universities aren't for-profit. Sure they have to manage budgets and the bottom-line does matter, but the goal of the outcome isn't profit. It's experiences, knowledge, and all the stuff you'd hear about on a fantastic commercial.

Demanding the 2nd most important program in the athletic department that plays in the 2nd highest level of football in the land win, isn't sensible given the context of the situation.

Thanks to the facility enhancements that basketball has brought - Jim Fleming was able to secure the top recruiting class in the CAA 2 years in a row.

So a team that has been competitive in all games but one this year, and is a few plays away from being 6-2 instead of 2-6, looks like a young team. Well yeah, they are a young team.

Honestly if you want to compare basketball and football, Fleming walked into an even worse situation than Hurley - because of the NEC drop.

Less scholarships and recruiting for NEC level players is as much, if not more of a hamstring than what Hurley was left with. At least basketball has a somewhat recent history and arena to sell. The ability to play in the NCAA tournament and be in the national spotlight. Fleming has none of that. No football history, recent or otherwise. Poor facilities. A class below the national bright lights. .


Paragraph one: Five weekends a year and less than 5000. If memory serves it was less than 4000 last year. And I didn't know most of us were proud of losing

Paragraph two: We shouldn't expect them to win? That's a loser mentality that frankly I thought you were above. I guess I read your posts on other parts of the board wrong. Thorr himself used to say the program would be judged on wins and losses? What else should we judge it on?

Paragraph three: Did we have the best recruiting class this year? I know we did last year. And he's done what with those players? This is his team, every player on it. Since the first year we've been told that he's been improving the caliber of player. We clinched a losing season two weeks ago.

Paragraph four: And if our aunts had different genitals they'd be our uncles. They're 2-6 because that's what our players and coaches are capable of. You are what your record says you are.

Paragraph five and six: Again the debunked NEC excuse. If that killed us why have Albany, Stony Brook and now Elon been better than us?


OK so numbers aside we're talking about a minimum of 20,000 extra people who have an excuse to come down to campus, spend money, and support the school. 20,000 people who wouldn't normally be there. We're certainly not proud of losing, but football has never been to any type of promised land. There's no expectations of greatness. No mid 90's moment where we were minutes away for a national championship. No top 5 NFL draft pick. No nationally televised miracle upsets. Football isn't basketball in New England, and certainly in this state or at this school, so neither are the expectations.

Now I am certainly not supporting losing, nor am I rooting for it. I don't think anyone is. The reality here is different than it is with basketball. So are my, and I'm sure many other's, expectations.

If we were a Division I FBS program (like we are in basketball), and this was the only sport that we had at a high level (it isn't), then yes I would be screaming as loudly as possible about getting a winner. But correct, if our aunts had dicks they'd be our uncles.

Yes, they had the number 1 class in the CAA 2 years running. That should matter.

They're 2-6 because they're a young team. Just like you expect junior and senior lead teams to go deep in basketball, you want to see growth with freshman and sophomore-led teams.

I'm not sure how you can't see the improvement from last year to this year. More importantly I don't get how you're not excited for the future based on the make-up of the starters and talent of the classes.

As for the NEC excuse - Albany, Stony Brook and Elon made the right coaching hire right away. We had the right guy in Darren Rizzi, but he bounced for the NFL. We had to move quick to try and build on the momentum of that team and hired a former assistant. Joe Trainer wasn't the guy. We fired him when we financially could.

Coupled with the NEC excuse this is the first year that the senior class recruited in 2012 under NEC rules is gone.

Fleming improved. Slowly but he's improved. 1 win seasons, a 2 win season, and now we're sitting at 2 with games to go. Is it meteoric? No. But I'm not sure there's a "glory" for us to return to, which is why I'm confused by the fervor and anger here. Expectations are usually based on something - whether it be a history of greatness or investment in the program.

Considering we have neither, I'm just confused about why you're treating football like basketball.

You think Kentucky fans care about football? Kansas?

Schools have 1 program that is their flagship and nothing else matters. It's very clear who our flagship program is, and where the investments are. I would much rather become a Gonzaga, Butler, Xavier, or Villanova rather than a James Madison, Delaware or North Dakota.

No one cares about 1AA football.

Everyone cares about D1 basketball.

I'm not going to tell you what expectations you should have for your teams, but I like to think mine are well aligned with the level of play each compete in, and the history of the programs.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 3 weeks ago

Here's what I expect, or maybe demand is a better word here. I demand safe East stands to sit in. I expect at least one playoff appearance every ten years. I expect no more than one 1 or 2 win season every ten years. I expect the rest of the time for us to be around .500. We should be a competitive program. We're not.

We've already diminished demands on football by having it in FCS. I'm not saying we should be competing with P5 programs. But we should be competitive with UNH, Maine, hell even Virginia's like 5th university in James Madison. If we can't compete with CAA schools then we need to be NEC or lower.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby OBRAM » 3 weeks ago

To say nobody cares about FCS (Old 1-AA) , or URI football is not true. FCS (1-AA) level football maybe even better than the professionalism that exist in FCS (1-A) football, and I have heard that from people who went college at SEC schools.
Do you really want you football coach to make more than the University President, or to be competing with Alabama who spends $50 million a year on football?
The reason URI football is in the condition it is in, is because the URI Administration has almost never taken the program with the seriousness that
it gives to URI Basketball, or the seriousness that UNH, Maine, Stony Brook, Villanova give to their program. Just ask any former URI football coach how hard it is to recruit when,
1. you don't use all available scholarships
2. have a small recruiting budget
3 have very bad football facilities
4 have football office that looks like it is out of the 1940's. It is a simply as that.
I think URI football can be as good as Stony Brook, Villanova, but would like to see them be a North Dakota State type team.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 3 weeks ago

OBRAM wrote:To say nobody cares about FCS (Old 1-AA) , or URI football is not true. FCS (1-AA) level football maybe even better than the professionalism that exist in FCS (1-A) football, and I have heard that from people who went college at SEC schools.


Oh good lord you football honks are something else. No one that likes college football as a sport prefers FCS football to FBS football. Fans at FCS football schools have deluded themselves that it's that good or better because of their rooting interest in a school, but I promise you no one sitting in Bryant-Denny Stadium is wishing they were really in New ASU stadium.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby OBRAM » 3 weeks ago

Would I like to see URI football to be like the Oregon Ducks of a few years ago with National Title hopes in the horizon, 60,000 in the stands, Yes. But playing at that level trying to compete with the Alabama, Ohio States , Georgia's of the world, you are entering a new realm of professionalism. They call it college sports, but it really just a NFL Developmental League. There maybe are 25-30 teams in FBS that have a shot ever, the rest of the FBS maybe should be in the FCS and get out of college professional sports.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby Uncle Ed » 3 weeks ago

Blue Man, please count me as non rational. If Fleming wins his last 3 games(which will not happen) his record will be 9-36. But frankly, I believe that if he goes 2-1 he will return as coach and I can accept that. But when you state that he is improving slowly - by the way his record is 1 win, 1 win, 2 wins, and now 2 wins - slowly is the operative word. Because he beat an Albany team - that has now lost 4 games in a row and obviously has some issues - how does that make up for Brown and Elon and every other game in the last 2+ years that he has lost when we had a chance to win. Do you look at the way this team plays and say this is a well coached offense, or defense? Do you see a disciplined team that does not make untimely and silly mistakes? Do we wonder why 6 5th year Seniors chose not to play this year? Have they overachieved or underachieved?

Fleming boasted how he applied for the URI job 4 separate times and that we finally got him. I assume he was looking for other Head Coaching jobs during this time. Maybe Thorr was sold on his being a Coordinator at a relatively successful BCS program or that 20+ years earlier he had success at a non scholarship D2 school. But there had to be reasons why he was not able to get a Head Coaching position during all those years? We should have obeyed the 3 strikes and your out rule, but this is URI so we can be a little slow. How about 4 years of not meeting expectations and you are out? We agree that Fleming has brought in better talent and these players deserve a coach that knows how to win.

Rhowdy Ram provided a very rational set up of expectations of what should be expected and I am fully on board. Thorr - go find a head coach that knows how to win, i.e. Chesney at Assumption, or a young up and coming Offensive Coordinator, i.e. Coen and Maine, fix the East Stands and give these players and fans something to be excited about.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby OBRAM » 3 weeks ago

Isn't that the issue, fix the East stands. Something that has been talked about for the last 20 years.
How many basketball recruits would we get if we were playing in Rodman Hall?
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby Blue Man » 3 weeks ago

RhowdyRam02 wrote:Here's what I expect, or maybe demand is a better word here. I demand safe East stands to sit in. I expect at least one playoff appearance every ten years. I expect no more than one 1 or 2 win season every ten years. I expect the rest of the time for us to be around .500. We should be a competitive program. We're not.

We've already diminished demands on football by having it in FCS. I'm not saying we should be competing with P5 programs. But we should be competitive with UNH, Maine, hell even Virginia's like 5th university in James Madison. If we can't compete with CAA schools then we need to be NEC or lower.


Those are completely reasonable goals and I would tend to agree. For those goals to happen basketball needs to become a dominant and perennial national contender - for YEARS. We need their budget to balloon to the point where it is self-sustaining, has helped build a practice facility, and then allow the football team and other programs to grow and thrive as well.

We could become a team like Temple, which was able to use it's YEARS of perennial dominance atop the A10 and subsequent NCAA births and dollars, to bring their football up to the big time. Had we not hired such a buffoon as basketball coach for the beginning of the century, we'd have possibly been right there with them.

All the enhancements you want to see at Meade, all the upgrades, they cost money. The only way the department can get money is by the basketball team winning. Right now they're coasting on the infrastructure improvements basketball has made possible. Fleming has turned that into consecutive top-of-conference recruiting efforts.

The "NEC excuse" as you called it is legitimate. It's a complete reset on the football program. We can't drop to the NEC because we already tried. Donors and sponsors would pull out. All the advantages that football gains financially would be wiped out, and then you'll start to hear the "well now it costs money we should drop it" call.

OBRAM: "The reason URI football is in the condition it is in, is because the URI Administration has almost never taken the program with the seriousness that it gives to URI Basketball, or the seriousness that UNH, Maine, Stony Brook, Villanova give to their program."

I 100% agree. I also 100% do not want to ever be in the same breath as UNH, Maine or Stony Brook. Ever. Those are nationally irrelevant programs everywhere it counts. They are known as 1AA powers and that's it. Whoopie. They could be the national champion and no one nationally would care. Off the top of their head, can the average person name me the last 5 1AA champions? Even the last 3? Last years? No. One. Cares. About. 1AA. Football.

We have 1 sport capable of competing at the highest level of a sport that matters nationally. That's basketball. We are a basketball school. More importantly we are a good basketball school. The focus should never and will never get away from that fact. If basketball becomes a consistent winner, then so will football.

Coaching is a discussion topic that is valid. I honestly think our defense plays at an extremely high level in the conference. Young safeties getting mixed up and allowing home runs will happen. They will get better. Fleming is a defensive guy and I trust what I've seen so far this year.

The offense definitely has it's issues, but it also has 1 senior starter. 4 starters on offense are sophomores. Playcalling has confused me at times, but there are plenty of good calls that weren't executed on. There are 3 sophomores on the O-line. Both QB's are transfers who are very clearly shaking off the rust. I'm cautiously optimistic on 2 of the last 3 games, and next year.

The coaching angle is one thing, but at the end of the day it's talent that wins football games. You can have Belichick on the sidelines but if you show up on game day with a smaller offensive line, slower skill players, and an average or below average QB, you will lose all the time.

Let these last 2 recruiting classes mature and then you'll get a fair assessment of this program. 8/22 starters are sophomores. That means that next years team will return 17 players with at least 2 years of starting experience. At least 2 years of college level nutrition and training regiments. Why would you not get excited about what is to come, and why wouldn't you want to let the guy who's put that in place lead that team?
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby Rhodymob05 » 3 weeks ago

There needs to be a public awareness effort made by fans, players, students alumni, and whomever else about the support of this program, and certainly about the safety of those stands. I sat there on homecoming and was certainly a little on edge.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby Rhodymob05 » 3 weeks ago

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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby Uncle Ed » 3 weeks ago

Blue Man wrote:Coaching is a discussion topic that is valid. I honestly think our defense plays at an extremely high level in the conference. Young safeties getting mixed up and allowing home runs will happen. They will get better. Fleming is a defensive guy and I trust what I've seen so far this year.


The high level defense is currently ranked last in scoring defense, last in pass defense, but hey William and Mary gives up 10 more yards a game than we do! So we are improving from being last in all categories the past 2 years.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby Blue Man » 3 weeks ago

Uncle Ed wrote:
Blue Man wrote:Coaching is a discussion topic that is valid. I honestly think our defense plays at an extremely high level in the conference. Young safeties getting mixed up and allowing home runs will happen. They will get better. Fleming is a defensive guy and I trust what I've seen so far this year.


The high level defense is currently ranked last in scoring defense, last in pass defense, but hey William and Mary gives up 10 more yards a game than we do! So we are improving from being last in all categories the past 2 years.


When you’re rebuilding, and we are rebuilding, stats don’t tell the story. A lot of those yards and scores have been given up on missed assignments that went for long TDs. Young teams, rebuilding teams make those mistakes. Then they get older and learn and don’t make those mistakes any more.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby Uncle Ed » 3 weeks ago

I admire your optimism...but I think it is a blind optimism. Stats don't always tell the whole story - how many yards you give up is a case in point. But when you give up more points than every school every year and the Head Coach is "a defensive guy" then this is not a good story. Yes, all of Fleming's teams have been young teams, his sole selling point is that you can come in and play right away. But how many of the players from his first 2 classes -who would be Juniors and Seniors are still with the program? Where did they go? Why did they leave? Have you ever noticed that UNH is always an experienced team, that is because almost every kid they bring in is red-shirted and then developed into a good player. And I never hear of these 5th year players not returning or transferring out. This seems to be the proper model for building a team.

Let's get to the chase, do you recommend that Thorr extend Fleming so he won't be a lame duck next year? Every good recruit will be tuned into the coaching situation as will the coaches of the programs we are competing with. I think we have the players to win now, I have not seen that we have the coaches.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby Hal Kopp » 3 weeks ago

No extension for Fleming (unless he wins 2 or 3 games in a row).
Ed-since 1985,look at the amount of all conference QBS and O line from UNH and Maine Vs. Rhody!!
Thats a big part of problem! At Maine and UNH a good QB plays 2 seasons.
Rhody goes thru 2 a game!
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 3 weeks ago

Blue Man wrote:The coaching angle is one thing, but at the end of the day it's talent that wins football games. You can have Belichick on the sidelines but if you show up on game day with a smaller offensive line, slower skill players, and an average or below average QB, you will lose all the time.

Let these last 2 recruiting classes mature and then you'll get a fair assessment of this program. 8/22 starters are sophomores. That means that next years team will return 17 players with at least 2 years of starting experience. At least 2 years of college level nutrition and training regiments. Why would you not get excited about what is to come, and why wouldn't you want to let the guy who's put that in place lead that team?


Because there's nothing significantly better coming? Every year we make the same mistakes game in and game out. The mistakes we make now are the same ones we've made since Fleming's first year. You mention that we're young, but you also point out that those young players already have a lot of playing time under their belt, which is far more important than what year they are in. Despite all this playing time they're still making a ton of mistakes. At a certain point it's not because they're sophomores, it's because there is a lack of attention to detail that starts with the head coach. Haven't we learned from the Belichick era that the "most talented" teams don't always win, many times it's the teams that don't beat themselves? Take care of the ball, no dumb penalties, don't make the same mistakes over again. We do none of these things, not because we're young, because we have no attention to detail.

Also Fleming's defensive ability has been massively overrated, and I wrote about it around the time of the hire. Yes, his defense was tops in the league at Central Florida, but it was tops before he got there. He walked into a good situation, and that's good he didn't screw things up. I don't mean that sarcastically either, there's value to that, just think where we'd have been if we hired someone like that after Harrick. But I find his six years as a defensive coordinator in the MAC more important. In six years his teams scoring ranking never got appreciably better. That was a massive red flag at his hiring and it's even more troublesome at the end of his fourth year here.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby OBRAM » 2 weeks ago

Blueman Wrote "I 100% agree. I also 100% do not want to ever be in the same breath as UNH, Maine or Stony Brook. Ever. Those are nationally irrelevant programs everywhere it counts. They are known as 1AA powers and that's it. Whoopie. They could be the national champion and no one nationally would care. Off the top of their head, can the average person name me the last 5 1AA champions? Even the last 3? Last years? No. One. Cares. About. 1AA. Football. "[

If nobody cared about 1AA football, would College Game Day go to NDSU or James Madison at least the last 3 years? You don't want to be considered in the same breath as UNH, Maine or Stony Brook? So, what , is URI much better, One NCAA Basketball win In the last 17 years?
Other than basketball and indoor track , URI facilities are a joke. Maine has a big disadvantage recruiting being so far North, but they can do it. Stony Brook had no program 25 years ago, but look what they have done.
The last 5 1AA champions, well, that's not fair, that's easy question. NDSU 5 years in a row, James Madison last year.
In Basketball that’s a lot harder question, you had UNC in 2017, and I can't remember any before that, I know UConn won it at least 3 times starting in 1999, then I guess its KY is in there.
People care about basketball one month a year, and the basketball season is too long, the one and done have hurt the skill level. People care about football 11 months a year. Just listen to the National Sports Radio. I know they are 95% talking about 1-A football, but they are not talking about basketball either.
As far as Basketball facilities helping URI football recruiting, Just ask a former coach. Potential recruits say 'Nice basketball arena, but what do you have for football?'
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 2 weeks ago

So what that people care about the NFL and people outside of the Northeast care about FBS football, that doesn't give FCS football in the Northeast some kind of reflected relevance. College basketball is far more important everywhere in the country than FCS football and that's especially true in the Northeast.

By the way, Gameday had an episode in Times Square this year. What was the football game happening there that people cared about? Going to FCS schools for them is a novelty, not a sign of national relevance.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby OBRAM » 2 weeks ago

College Game Day went to NYC, because of many FBS grads work in NYC, because Fordham and Columbia have a deep history in Football.
Even Lafayette Played Lehigh in Yankee Stadium a few years ago and got 40,000.
Actually in was 2014 The sellout crowd of 48,256 was the second largest attendance for a college football game at Yankee Stadium
I think many URI people put to much relevance in Basketball, I think they have read Projo to much.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 2 weeks ago

So they went to Times Square because of a game in Yankee Stadium a few years ago? Ok...
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby bigappleram » 2 weeks ago

This is a dumb argument - football as a spectator sport is more popular than basketball flat out, at all levels, from amateur (high school) through professional. It's indisputable. My own high school experience, our basketball team was 4-5x better than our football team, and had 4-5x less people at games. The skill level doesn't matter, the passion is there at an undeniable level greater than basketball. For a university, at any level, there is tangible value in that passion and affinity.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 2 weeks ago

I like that you prefaced your dumb argument but coming right out and saying it was dumb. Really saves me time trying to go point by point. Thanks!
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby OBRAM » 2 weeks ago

Let's say we had a very good FBS football team, which is dreaming.
Would you rather be in a conference like the AAC with Temple, UConn, Cincinnati, Memphis;
Or would you rather be in A-10 Basketball conference with VCU, GW, St. Joes, St. Bonnie, Duquesne.
Travel is not good in either conference.

Now you could say, I rather be in A-10 you have a better chance of being a top team and going to NCAA, but
how long will the A-10 keep getting 2-3 teams in the Tourney?
I think you have to say that the AAC has higher pedigree of basketball schools.

One way you could look at it, is that a Good Basketball program and a good football program can complement each other.
One more question. If UMass turns its football program around, and can get 20,000+ attendance, would UMass
be a candidate to move to the AAC? Where would that leave URI, with no geographic conference foe, and Fordham being the closest.
I think Imagine if URI, UMass, and UConn, and Temple were in the same conference, that would be something.

Temple's football program was one of the worst 15 or so years ago, and UConn was just out of the Yankee conference . Nobody could have imagined them in the AAC 15 years ago.

Also, I have read where James Madison is being considered as a team that could join the AAC, and of course it would be because of its football. so much for FCS(1-AA) football not being important.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 2 weeks ago

Your whole argument is irrelevant. You're basing it on something that you even admit has no chance of happening.

Let's say I was a super rich rock star. Would I rather be dating supermodels or the girls I have dated in the past? Well no shit, but I'm not exactly going to be a super rich rock star either am I?

You football people wouldn't find things so hard for yourselves if you could make coherent arguments about things that could happen here on planet Earth and if you were passionate about winning.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby OBRAM » 2 weeks ago

Our basketball program could be left in the dust if it was not part of a University with a good football program. URI is not like
the a small catholic school like Xavier, PC, Villanova. The future vitality of the basketball program, to reach national attention, could be dependent on the football program. Football is driving the bus. If you want the most success for the URI basketball program you should start wanting all the most possible success for the football program beyond your wildest dreams, because, the best future for URI basketball might be to be in a conference like the AAC, yup it is dreaming, but you better start to dream.
I don't have a crystal ball, nobody does, but just look at college sports in the last 15-25 years. We used to be in a basketball conference that had
Pitt, West Virginia, and Temple in it. We have Duquesne, LaSalle, and Richmond instead.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby RhowdyRam02 » 2 weeks ago

Ok, so your argument is we need to go to FBS? That's not happening. Or is your argument that football drives the bus in the FCS? That's not accurate.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby bigappleram » 2 weeks ago

"You football people.." you may want to rephrase to "You URI people". These are fans who are passionate about the program, and just because they don't instigate a coup on the coaching staff or AD it doesn't mean their passion is misguided or less meaningful or disgraceful as you like to paint it. Clearly you have your opinion, and we have all heard it about 300 times by now.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby ramster » 2 weeks ago

Plus there are many URI Alums who closely follow both URI Basketball AND URI Football. These are not just "football people".
And all want the best for both programs.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby Blue Man » 1 week ago

OBRAM wrote:Blueman Wrote "I 100% agree. I also 100% do not want to ever be in the same breath as UNH, Maine or Stony Brook. Ever. Those are nationally irrelevant programs everywhere it counts. They are known as 1AA powers and that's it. Whoopie. They could be the national champion and no one nationally would care. Off the top of their head, can the average person name me the last 5 1AA champions? Even the last 3? Last years? No. One. Cares. About. 1AA. Football. "[

If nobody cared about 1AA football, would College Game Day go to NDSU or James Madison at least the last 3 years? You don't want to be considered in the same breath as UNH, Maine or Stony Brook? So, what , is URI much better, One NCAA Basketball win In the last 17 years?
Other than basketball and indoor track , URI facilities are a joke. Maine has a big disadvantage recruiting being so far North, but they can do it. Stony Brook had no program 25 years ago, but look what they have done.
The last 5 1AA champions, well, that's not fair, that's easy question. NDSU 5 years in a row, James Madison last year.
In Basketball that’s a lot harder question, you had UNC in 2017, and I can't remember any before that, I know UConn won it at least 3 times starting in 1999, then I guess its KY is in there.
People care about basketball one month a year, and the basketball season is too long, the one and done have hurt the skill level. People care about football 11 months a year. Just listen to the National Sports Radio. I know they are 95% talking about 1-A football, but they are not talking about basketball either.
As far as Basketball facilities helping URI football recruiting, Just ask a former coach. Potential recruits say 'Nice basketball arena, but what do you have for football?'


Sorry. The season that matters started so I forgot that I lit an internet fire over here too.

Um, looking at ESPN gameday as an indicator of national relevance without the context of why they're there is..interesting. Just like how "world wide leader" is used ironically these days, this isn't the 90's. ESPN isn't an indicator of the pulse of anything today.

So NDSU and JMU are 2 of the biggest things going in FCS. They have ardent supporters and rabid fans. Yet still, no one nationally cares about them - because they don't play with the best. People still talk about the App State game 10 years ago where they went and beat a Michigan team that was high as hell just to see if they could still win. That's the highlight of FCS football on the national stage. Wooooooooooie!

Yes, URI is that much better than those 3 schools. 1 NCAA appearance between the 3 of those schools in their lifetime.

Are you also going to tell me how the scholar athlete games are just as good as the olympics because parents can be rabid fans of rec league sports?

The PawSox winning an international league title is on the same level a Red Sox world series?

Do you weep every night the Calder trophy isn't above the ice at the Dunkin Donuts Center?

I really don't know how to make sense of an argument where you are saying that no one cares about basketball, except for when they do, and when they don't they care about FBS football, not FCS?

5.5 million people went to FCS football games last year.

27.2 million people went to NCAA D1 basketball games last year.

I am struggling to grasp the crux of your argument here.

Keep in mind I love football, love Rhody football - certainly not to the level you do - but I can keep a perspective on what it is and level-set my expectations to that.

With basketball, there is a legitimate history that carried through my formative years to tell me that the expectations for URI basketball have been and can be at a 2nd weekend level in national relevance. Enough people agreed so they built a 65 million dollar on campus arena to keep those standards in place. At the very least they compete in the highest level of the sport in the land and always have a chance to play in a tournament for a national championship.

URI football, JMU, NDSU - could all go undefeated for 10 years straight and would never get that chance.

URI basketball all time - 1471-1113 .569, 9 NCAA appearances. 1 last year.

URI football all time - 384–543–43 .418, 3 playoff appearances (in the division of football that doesn't matter). Last coming in 1985. NINETEEN EIGHTY FIVE. Since then 3 winning seasons, none since 02.

I am 30 years old. I was born in 1987. URI football has NEVER been good in my lifetime. Technically, they have never been good. Why are your expectations so out of whack compared to what the historical level set is?

I am seriously asking. Did you play? Did you high five Chris Hixon once in 95?

There is no reasonable explanation for your vitriol and what you view as "mishandling" of football at URI.

In the context, a 3, possibly 4 win season here is a "success" - certainly not a goal, not what we are striving for, but your expectations aren't based in reality.
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Re: URI football: History is chasing us

Unread postby Rhodymob05 » 1 week ago

URI definitely had great seasons in the past. To my knowledge, they were really good in the latw 1970s early 1980s.
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